Is 13 too young to think about Oxbridge?

[lottieandmia]

My dd is a brilliant artist and I had thought that she would want to go to art college. But she's also turned out to be very academic and one of her teachers described her to me as 'brilliant' at the last parents evening.

i think that she might possibly be able to try for a place at Oxbridge and she's interested in the idea but I don't know much about the interview process. My best friend went to Magdalen - she said they ask unusual questions. It may be that it doesn't suit her but I thought it would be worth considering.

BTW at least courses that interview think carefully about whether a student is suited for that particular course.

It is actually far worse when universities let students in just on the basis of their grades when they aren't suited for the course/really interested in it.

A student with strong grades will have no problems getting offers for almost all subjects, provided they don't just put the top 5 universities for that subject on their form. But a student with strong grades and anxiety should themselves think very carefully about what course/environment is going to be best for them.

I agree about that. I got offered a place at my preferred university (Cardiff) without an interview but I think Nottingham asked for an interview as did King's College London.

My daughter doesn't suffer from anxiety. She's naturally a quiet person though.

Interviewers try to do what they can to alleviate nerves/anxiety. Allowances are made.

DD tells me that compared to her interviews for RADA, Oxford was 'a piece of piss.'.

Did she get into RADA haircut? That's where ds2 wants to apply He knows the application-offer stats though.

I'd say too early OP - and I'd advise anyone to never make Oxford or Cambridge (or any other top tier university) their sole aim. Too much pressure.

I went to Oxford - didn't think about it before 6th form and applied very much in a 'I'll give it a go' type way. I can't imagine the pressure of thinking about it from 13.

Down to the fourth and final round devlish.
It will take place some time in April. All day affair.

The thing is, even if your daughter does think about it, what will she do differently? She still needs to do GCSEs and A-levels, so presumably whether she is thinking about Oxbridge or not she's going to try to do as well as possible in those. She's not going to think No Oxbridge, No Try. I think it's dangerous to obsess too much about one possible educational outcome, but to be fair I had thought about it in a 'wouldn't it be nice?' daydream sort of way at 14 or 15, much in the same vague and unformed way as I thought about becoming a famous novelist or marrying my favourite tennis star.

I went ( over 20 years ago)!
I don't think I really considered it a realistic possibility until I was choosing A-levels.I went to visit the city & fell in love with it, then we found out later on about the application and interview process.
It is hard to plan ahead and prepare for it as different colleges want different things for different subjects each year. Academic excellence is universally expected but individual tutors do the interviews in the colleges and they all look for something different which you can't work out in advance.
I think you can plan ahead when choosing A-levels and just make sure that she picks the right subjects for the chosen course to start the process.
I ended up with loads of extra curricular stuff on my UCCA form as it was called then,,not because I was planning to go to Oxbridge,just because I was interested in other things and was sporty. I think that helped.
Good luck!

Thanks, I really don't put pressure on her. I don't mind what she does. I'm somewhat surprised that she has said she wants to go to university as I always assumed she would go to art college. The reason I started this thread was really to find out other people's experiences and whether it's an enjoyable place to study etc. I imagine it's highly pressured and if you're not extremely academic then you won't enjoy it. I wouldn't encourage her to apply unless she got straight A*s in her GCSEs.

I wouldn't encourage her to apply unless she got straight As in her GCSEs.*

Why not? Do you really think that everybody at Oxbridge has straight A stars in GCSEs? Do you not trust the Oxbridge admissions tutors to make judgments about who would enjoy studying there?

Well from this year the grades change to As as the top grade (apparently thus will be a 9). Her school targets for year 11 are all 8s and 9s. But exams are about to change. My friend got 8As and 2As at a time when A was the highest grade. I would just think that very high grades are a minimum requirement really.

Oh one other thing is that my own parents were very negative with me about what I could achieve (especially my mother). So with my own daughters I always feel that I want to support them with their ambitions whatever they are and certainly not say anything negative to them.

High grades are of course a minimum requirement. Straight A stars at GCSE are not however necessary. Students should not be put off applying just because they don't have straight A stars (or all 8s/9s in the new system).

Remember that Oxbridge uses a combination of GCSEs, AS grades (about to go), pretests, grade predictions, interviews to select. Students with ~6 A stars at GCSE but better performance in the latter can often get offers over those who have more A stars at GCSE.

Apart from med/vet, it seems to be more that high grades in the relevant subjects may matter, but they certainly don't need a perfect set - my DD's were a bit of a game of two halves. Cambridge puts more weight on post-16 achievements/predictions. So the end of yr 12 - no AS now but they'll surely have internal exams and assessments - is (kinda obviously!) the time to really decide which unis/courses to apply for. Best not to make assumptions either way until then.

Thanks user. We'll just see how she gets on over the coming years.

X posts - thanks Errol

My dad thinks she should apply to the Royal College of Art....I am not sure how to advise her. One factor is that she doesn't like the idea of living in London.

lottie I didn't have straight A stars, there are lots of myths about oxbridge

I used to do a lot of access events etc - I was the first to uni in my extended family and oxford certainly wasn't on my radar until one teacher suggested it late in yr12

I loved my subject and enjoyed my time there - certainly wasn't polished / confident as a teen when applying! Had no interview practice or anything like that as my teachers & family had no idea that was even a thing that you apparently should worry about

Would agree with a PP get your course selection right - that is more important than going to oxbridge specifically

Oxford is interested in people who have a passion for their subject & can demonstrate a (natural) interest beyond the school curriculum. That's more important than straight A*'s on the whole. And also a reason not to focus on it how. Let passions develop without pressure of where it will take her.

It's one thing to be academically ambitious, it's another to focus at 13 on one university or one course. When the time comes it may well be that another course somewhere else will get your child where they want to be, or indeed your child may not get into the college they've had their heart set on for years, and then anything they do will seem to them as a failure, even when it is anything but.

Encourage them to look at lots of options, and keep their mind open. (And keep your own mind open, too. Oxbridge isn't everything.)

There's no rush to decide at 13, but also no harm in starting to gather information. There will also be open days to attend nearer the time.

Maybe send off for some prospectuses from a variety of different universities (or read them online)? I remember looking through them for the first time, and it was very helpful to see how the courses differ, what the places look like, and all the courses I'd never heard of (i.e. anything that wasn't a school subject!)

DD can read around her favourite subjects in addition to the material learned at school. When the time comes, this will demonstrate a genuine interest and self-motivation to an interviewer.

Perhaps also think about any particular combinations or specialisms which are available. Again, not in order to decide yet, but just to know something of the wide range of courses out there. (I certainly didn't have the first clue about any of that at 13!)

Just for example, some of the courses at Oxford include:

Classical Archaeology and Ancient History
History and Economics
History and Modern Languages
Fine Art
Archaeology and Anthropology

Oxford and Cambridge don't offer every degree or every option for everyone, and your DD will have several more spaces on the application form, so find out about as many places as you can. She might decide that the Graphic Design course at the Manchester School of Art is right up her street, or Ancient, Medieval & Modern History at Durham, or History and International Relations at Exeter.

It could also be worth looking through a careers website such as Prospects, as they have pages on the jobs you might do with a particular degree, and statistics on where graduates in each subjects go next.

E.g on this page www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/fine-art it says a sixth of fine art graduates working in the UK are employed as artists.

Sounds like your DD has a supportive and enthusastic Mum

we've nothing to hide

Never said you did, but you're rather defensive.

Although I agree that GCSE results are not relevant beyond ruling yourself in.

I think the crunch is how a student enjoys A levels, finding a subject/s they're keen to explore further. Then the question is whether they want a really academic course or a more laid back university experience.

OP like Bluntness I'd say it does sound a bit full on for a 13yr old. Are you sure your dad isn't making up for his negative approach to your own education and that you aren't overdoing it because of your own unsupported experience? You do need to be incredibly careful that what you see as support doesn't get perceived as pressure by your DD, given that you're starting this conversation when she's relatively so young.

Is she in Y9 or a year ahead of herself in Y10, because that might make a marginal difference. Y9 is very early to make accurate predictions. She's obviously very clever, but I'm taking my Y10 DD's predictions with a bag of Saxo (almost all 9s. Apparently teachers generally are being a bit liberal with their 9s. They're supposed to be exceptional and anyhow no-one really knows what a 9 looks like yet. I certainly don't expect my DD to get as many as she's predicted, and wouldn't base her future direction on them because they're far from being firmly in the bag).

I don't see any merit in targeting Oxford in Y9 or even Y10, but I do see quite a lot of merit in not targeting it until at least after GCSEs.

I meant your daughter is obviously very clever, not mine :)

'we've nothing to hide'

Er what? I never said this, I think you have the wrong thread.

My dad is a graphic designer and also lecturer so that's why he's keen for her to do art. She's won scholarships and several competitions and really is very good at it - her concepts as well as drawing from observation ability. So I struggle to imagine her in a career which is not creative / not artistic but it was she who expressed an interest in university all of a sudden.

Yes I completely agree about GCSE predictions. Especially since the new system has yet to even happen. There will be more emphasis on exams as I understand it. Who knows what the benchmarks will be for various grades?