Dreamer of dreams,born out of my due time, Why should I strive to set the crooked straight. Wm Morris

[indignatio]

Hopefully the link from the other thread will work

My stats

ds is 4.5 - summer born
In reception class

Has issues with:-
Easy distractability (school work and practical tasks)
Concentration problems when not totally engaged by something (95% of the time)
Fidgeting
Getting "lost" in the middle of a complicated sentence/explaination.
Bossy manner
Isolation at school
Poor eye contact
Repetition of sentences until he hears the acknowledgement
No herding instinct

On the positive
Very loving boy
Exceptional reader for his age
Good at maths
Lots of "home" friends
If gripped by something, can concentrate on it for ages

dx:
teacher initially thought he might have dyspraxia - no longer thinks so.
I consider that he has more add traits, but would not go so far as to say he has add.
SENCO to informally assess him next week and then meeting to be arranged with parents, teacher and senco shortly thereafter.

Not sure what else I should put in.

Sphil - have you found a house ?

Yes, but still in early stages - survey not done, contract not exchanged. If all goes well we should be in by July.

Star Wars is on at old County Hall.

I'm in SW London/Surrey. Love to meet if it's possible.

Has anyone talked about reading social cues before (for their DC)? And if so has anyone got any advice or is this something I should post about on the sn board? DS doesn't realise when he's being annoying and the school have commented on it, though not to me

It's good to read your good news, indignatio. Things seem to be coming together rather better for DS3 at the moment - he's just started playing cricket, has been allowed to join the after-school chess club and wants to learn the piano. (DS2 wants to do that as well - logistical nightmare here I come...)

I'm in South London. Star Wars sounds good - there's a thread under Days Out Recommendations.

ok - next trait poll: excitability? and a need to break rules, whatever the consequences?

ds had a pretty awful day yesterday, just about all triggered by the fact that there is a boy (a boy he likes a lot & they do get on well) in his class who is a Joker, and (quite like ds) an excitable breaker of rules, in a way that seems to be nearly a compulsion. (Example, told me by ds: their teacher warned the other boy "You are skating on thin ice now!" and the other boy took this as a cue to make wild jokes about going swimming (which is exactly what ds might do) thereby making things 20 times worse for himself.)

Once ds has been derailed by a trigger or two from this other boy, he just seems to lose all ability to regulate his own behaviour - almost like hysteria - & takes most of a day to get anywhere near calm again.

Does anyone else have this at all? As, in fact, I've never come across (including in all my reading about special needs etc.) this sort of giddy compulsive transgression - except in the real live instance of this other boy.

Thank you dino - that is kind. He also had a rubbish piano lesson, full of that same deliberate silliness. But then his teacher sent me a lovely note about how his behaviour doesn't spoil his gift for music.

Anyway. Today's news: dd is being sent home from school for awfulness!! - distracting others & then being defiant when told off. At least she will take this to heart, and be able to make commitments about not doing it again.

not ds2? misbehaving at school??

Apologies if I am joining the thread too late here. Feel free to tell me to bugger off.

I was really heartened to see all your comments and descriptions of your children.

Sometimes I feel that dd is so worryingly different to every other child in the world, and it is nice to know that there are other 'dreamers' out there, and especially to pick up tips on how to go from here.

Stats
ds is 3.5 - September born
In (soon to be full time) day nursery.

Has issues with:-
Very very out on a limb compared to other children
Already gets distressed by poor social interaction with others.
Dreamer - never seems to listen to others or even be aware of their presence
Becomes so engrossed in things that she can't detach without huge meltdowns.
Long, complicated explanations and monologues which don't seem connected to the real world
Clumsy and way behind in any motor skills or ability to carry out physical tasks.
Bossy manner - yes
Isolation at school - yes
Poor eye contact - check
Repetition of sentences until she hears the acknowledgement - yes
No herding instinct - whatsoever.

On the positive
Very sensitive and caring when 'engaged' with someone.
Articulate and creates her own complex imaginary worlds
If gripped by something, can concentrate on it for ages - yes

dx:

Just fundamentally in her own world, which would be fine if she was happy that way, but she gets very sad about not having friends and not playing with other children.
Initially thought Aspergers, but she does seem to pick up on and give non-verbal messages.

I just worry that she will have a very hard life, and that can't seem to help her to adapt to social situations. It could be too young to tell, but she has always been so so different to the others, right from being a tiny baby.

ahem - all the mentions of 'ds' and 'he' should say 'dd' and 'she'. Copied the format of the OP and missed a few bits.

I wanted to say that yes, slowness of eating is one of the traits that marks her out as an outlier. Also, making bizarre connections between things that take you aback is another.

More than anything, I wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your experiences with your dcs. I hadn't realised how much I was getting cross with her for just being her and being different. I have been trying to get a square peg to fit a round hole and trying to 'normalise' her for her own good. That almost makes me cry to write it down.

I am now going to spend the afternoon with them happily and cherish my special little girl for what she is, instead of getting exasperated with her idiosyncracies.

Welcome Cloudhopper - of course you are not too late to join in.

Bink - excitibility - yes, ds gets hyped up and behaves in a v silly manner (almost childish ) but this does not lead (in his case) to breaking rules - BUT it does annoy me and the child/ren with whom he is playing. - Castles, is that the type of thing you meant by social cues ?

Hallgerda, it was great to read how well your ds3 is at the moment.

I have a meeting with ds's teacher after school today about his reading. I know her, I like her, I used to be able to stand up in Court and speak - so WHY do I have butterflies in my stomach already ?

To end on a positive note - ds has the ability to amaze me and make me smile. ds and dh were fighting with their pretend light sabres and:
ds "I have cut you in half"
dh "no you haven't - all my molecules jumped out of the way"
{Discussion on atoms and molecules had occured between them 24 hours earlier - I cannot for the life of me remember why)
ds "I freeze your molecules - with my special freezing power - and now I can cut you in half".
Cue me and dh looking at each other in amazement - and laughing

Welcome Cloudhopper. You will find lots of support on here. When DS (5) started school it was the making of him socially. Maybe it will be the same for your DD?

Lovely story indignatio. I know that butterly feeling well. I used to stand up and speak in front of aggressive salesforce every day and now I feel like running back to bed and pulling the duvet over my head whenever I have to speak to someone about DS.

The hyped up thing is exactly what I meant about social cues. DS seems to get so excited to see his friends he doesn't know how to draw the line. Like your DS Bink, he is also drawn to the more disruptive boys in class. Having said that I spoke to his teacher yesterday and she said he isn't annoying at all (confused message back to me) so maybe I am being over-sensitive, though it sounds like a common trait again.

Also to end positively, DS had his class assembly today (reception) when they do a little recital. DS had his own part and I'm not sure if I was imagining it (maybe just the blood pumping in my brain?!), but he got the loudest round of applause. I have a lump in my throat just writing that

Castles - enjoy your proud mummy moment

Hello Cloudhopper - I agree about the positive nature of this thread. I love being part of a virtual dreamers gang (on DS1's behalf). It has helped me appreciate DS1's good qualities and not worry so much about his quirkiness.

Bink - DS1 gets very excitable at times but is too rule-bound to do it in the classroom. It does put other children off sometimes though. Occasionally another child has set him off about something and it's as if he really can't stop laughing / being silly. I can see that he's out of control and actually wants to stop, but can't.

To lower the tone somewhat, do anyone's DCs have bowel problems? DS1 has always had a bit of a poo phobia, which leads to him holding it in for ages. Before we moved it had completely sorted itself but now it's come back with a vengeance, so that he's jiggling around for hours and very reluctant to sit on the loo. Then last night he wet/pooed the bed (sorry tmi if you're just about to have dinner...). He hasn't done this since he was potty trained. He wasn't in the slightest bit bothered btw!

cloudhopper - what's the opposite of bugger off? Anyway [primly] hello, & please do join in. The whole point of this thread (& thank you ignatio) is the more the merrier, so that we can feel bolstered against all those teachers who say "in all my xxxx years of teaching I have never seen a child like ..." And your dd sounds very like my ds - especially the intense engagement when there's a soulmate.

Delighted to hear that there are other children for whom getting giggly goes straight into bigtime losing it. It seems to be the equivalent (but somehow less serious, unless I'm kidding myself) problem to those anger/aggression/meltdown issues (mentioned below) that our children generally don't have - ie, it's the way in which our children's self-regulation difficulties display themselves.

sphil - sympathies re the "accident" - do you think it might be change of house/not quite feeling safe about taking himself to the loo in the night? I don't think ds has a brilliant gut system (we do get frequent announcements - to the entire house - that he's having a Tricky Poo, which basically means constipation) but I've never done too much about it, other than make sure he has a sensible diet & a good lot of exercise. He hasn't made it an issue. But would be interested in what others think.

Sympathies with the bowel prob Sphil. I also wonder like Bink if it's move/new school related? Poor thing. DS is ok in that area except when he and DD1 had MMR boosters on the same day and were both bunged up for 10 days (grr!) and then he started 'leaking'. It gets so hard and painful they can't go. You can get something to soften the stool from GP if that helps?

I think this has been touched on before with 'being nice to younger children' but are other dreamers completely non-aggressive? DD1 (3) is being aggressive towards DS only (biting/hitting etc). Probably related to DD2 who is 6m and DD1 has realised she's 'here to stay'. But, DS won't retaliate. He just stands there stoically taking it. I do adore this trait but sometimes I wish he'd give her a biff I also wonder what he's like in the playground.

Sphil - no bowel problems here (touch wood) - we do (almost always) have a rush to the loo for wees as he invariably leaves only just enough time.

Bink - your post made me smile - I got the "I've never taught a child like xxxxxx before" from the teacher yesterday. Otherwise we had a really good meeting.

Not sure about completely non-aggressive - but definately on the pacifist side. Like you I worry about his ability to stand up for himself in the playground.

Sphil - As regards bowel problems Dt2 went through a phase of soiling a lot , started when we began potty training for no2's. I think he was trying to hold it in and then this resulted on constipation. The constipation disappeared and he started to go regularly. However he used to hold on for as long as possible with the result of staining slightly . Both boys are obsessed with germs currently and when i told Dt2 that it wasnt very good to have stains in your pants he decided it would give him germs and all of a sudden the staining has all stopped and he is getting there on time. Long may it last! How is your Ds1 getting on at school now?

I also worry about Dt2 in the playground. he isnt exactly a pacifist but he is not as quick to run as others and isnt as agile and is in danger of being picked on.He retaliates more than he used to but I still worry as he is a bit of a softie.

Indignatio - glad your meeting went well.

Castles - You must be well proud

I had an appointment with the multidiscipline team on Wednesday. However the paed had a funeral to go to so it was only the speech and occ therapists that were there. They did their assessment and said that although not very significant they felt that they should focus on the gross movement side of things as they felt this was making him lack concentration. They said that when sitting and moving, his trunk movements were awkward and he appeared uncomfortable and was holding on to the back of the chair for support and propping himself up. He seemed to do fine at jumping, throwing and catching but struggled to balance on one foot despite having no problems hopping . He also did fine, I think on things like putting one hand on your head and point to your nose and crossing your arms over your body. They said that his brain was being used up to control his gross movements too much and there wasnt enough space to process everything else effectively , hence his concnetration problems and the fact that he doesnt take instructions on board well. He will still have to be seen by the paed and they want him to be seen by a physiotherapist with a view to getting some phsio along with some ot. Not sure what to think really . I came out feeling ok but then am reliving the whole thing . They said a report would be issued aftr we saw the physio and although they didnt highlight any major issue I am worried about what it may contain and that they were holding back because the paed wasnt there. They also said that from September they were going into schoolsrather then seing children after school and they would put Dt2 on their list so at least he may get some help next year

Forgot to say that although I would love a meet up I am in Northern ireland so not very feasable.

maggie - although you didn't see everyone you'd have liked, I think having physio/OT input is great - it's the part of the help that I think can be hardest to access.

I do believe that physical co-ordination difficulties can have a far-reaching effect - when they make it hard or even genuinely uncomfortable to hold a position (eg sitting on a carpet, as they do so much at school nowadays), how can a child be expected to work at their best?

We've just been given various physio exercises to do with ds - one is "wheelbarrows" where you hold his legs and he walks on his arms - it's to strengthen the "core" muscles that you use when you're holding yourself sitting, standing - actually, doing anything other than slouching! (He finds the wheelbarrows very very hard work, and truthfully I think I would too. And I am a big sloucher. Message for me too in there.)

Interesting - BIBIC gave us wheelbarrow exercises for DS2 to improve the sensory input to his hands. Maybe I should try them with DS1 too.

No more accidents thank goodness - have been getting my mum to take him to the loo before he goes to bed and he's been going OK. Think she's more laid back than me about it. .However, he's been waking up crying and sleepwalking - very short-lived, get him back to bed and asleep within a couple of minutes - but even so I think it shows that he IS under strain atm, even though he appears to be absolutely fine during the day. He told me 'I like my new school so much I could marry it' so don't think it's an overt problem iyswim - probably just the change in lifestyle.

Maggiems - agree about the OT/physio input. Difficult to get round here, even for DS2 who has ASD - so probably little chance for DS1 unless we go private. DS1's gross motor skills have improved hugely this year though - I couldn't believe it when he jumped off a full height trampoline onto the ground the other day! They do 'Wake and Shake' at the end of breaktimes at his school and PE is quite high profile, which I think is helping a great deal.

I understand your worry about them 'hiding' something - have this worry about DS1 all the time (mainly because his brother has ASD) and he does show a few Aspergers traits. But had a very reassuring chat with one of the therapists who runs DS2's Home Programme - she said that the development of 4, 5 and 6 yr old boys is often very uneven and she would be very cautious about any kind of dx unless he was really struggling. Her advice was to see if any of the traits remained 'intractable' at 7 or 8 before seeking a dx. Doesn't mean we can't help him of course - but her view was that labels for 'quirky' children can be quite damaging at this age. Thought this might be reassuring for a number of dreamers' mums on here!

Oh yes I forgot - a pacifist here too!

Thanks Sphil and Bink. I hadnt realised that I was fortunate to be getting some Ot and physio.

yes its easy to get paranoid isnt it? I get so worked up before going into any session about Dt2 and then i cant remember precisely what everyone said and i want to go back and ask loads of questions again. I mentioned to one of the Ot's that I had read quite a bit about various conditions and thought he had a few traits of some but not enough to make one particular diagnosis" and she said "Nor would you want to " . They were pretty laid back and I'm not sure if they thought there were just some minor issues that a lot of children have or not. The speech therapist kept talking about "these kinds of children" whatever that meant. I mentioned that I hadnt been that concenred about his gross motor skills especially as he can ride without stablisers and is fine for climbing ,
jumping etc but she said that the development pattern of "these children" tends to be somewhat uneven. I think on reflection and on trying to "self diagnose" through the internet that its more of an issue with motor planning and regulating which maybe a physio can help with . Sounds more OT to me but what do I know?

Sphil - glad Ds1 is settling in well at school. LOL about marrying it. Dt2 wants to marry his childminder and when asked what her husband is going to do he says he is going to through him out in the hedge!