School sounding cuts

[mrz]

Will your child's school face cuts to budget?http://www.schoolcuts.org.uk/#/

You can only have so many schools in an area

Exactly, so there shouldn't be restrictions on who can go to them, forcing others to have to travel.

Your idea of what is sensible and fair is bizarre.

But why force everyone into a one size fits all schools, we aren't clones and we dont live in a dictatorship. Its bizarre to force everyone into the same school. I dont get it?

You can't possibly have schools to cater for every single whim of every single parent so pandering to a few is unfair. To suggest that restricting entry requirements increases choice is totally insane.

If you have a Catholic school a Muslim school and a sports school, then where does the dyspraxic atheist go?

You can't possibly have schools to cater for every single whim

But you can cater for the large groups, like Catholics, C of E, Academics, Secular, Muslims, Jews, Sporting/Musical/Arts/Drama etc.

Most people dont understand why forcing children into one homogeneous school catering for the 'average' child is de rigueur. Is England so narrow minded?

Pigeonholing people into a single group depending on religion or whatnot is weird.

What if you're Catholic and artistic, Jewish and musical or academic and sporty? These are not distinct groups that can only be catered for adequately in terms of their education by segregating them from everyone else.

A lot of people are 'pigeon-holed' from birth because that is what families want, whether we like if or not. Its not weird its pretty normal.

The state is not there to dictate what a family can or cant do, its there to facilitate it. If a family wants their DC to go to a sporty Jewish school then they should be allowed to. If their isn't one in their area then they should be allowed to get a bus or train 60 miles away to go to one.

I dont get why some people want to dictate a narrow prescribed education education for children. Everyone is different and we should have choice.

So what now we need sporty Jewish schools and arty Jewish schools and academic Jewish schools to cater for all the possible variants? Then sporty Catholics, arty ones, vegetarian ones...

Or comprehensive schools that offer a good well-rounded education to all? That would seem the simple solution.

You seem to think that comp means everyone doing the same thing, which is weird because my comp offers sport, drama, music, top grades and so on. Kids find their own niches (can be more than one) without it being imposed on them from the start.

Of course we cant offer everything to everybody. But we can offer a few different choices and communities can try and open new schools that cater for their community.

I get that you think comprehensive schools offer a well-rounded education to all. But many people would dissent and believe comprehensives offer a bog standard education that caters to no one other than those that dont care.

Maybe your right but why dictate your vision on everyone, what is wrong with choice?

m.bristolpost.co.uk/ridings-federation-s-winterbourne-and-yate-academies-operating-at-loss-for-years/story-29894538-detail/story.html

Mummy trying her best the bristol situation hot lot worse.

1 million debts
Lost 4 million in 3 years.
The schools had many changes if head
Governing body
Teachers strikes last year
2 bad ofsted
It's huge 300 kids a year so I terms of numbers takes more kids than other local senior schools.
South glos is one of 10 lower funded local authority per head in the UK
I thourght good exam results got schools extra money?
The ridings achieved 73% gcse but is in requires improvement and they looking into 3 different academy chains to take it over.

The buildings are all shiny new
The federation have 2 schools with different catchments .
Winterbourne mostly affluent pushy middle class but yate international much more mixed and has struggled for years.

Lots questions over the next year by parents and teachers where did it all go wrong.
Only realised it was so in debt recently.
Felt like no expense spared at the open evening

In fact open evening was odd.
Acting head gave good speech how it's high performing / small classes/ lots of support staf.

The business manager then gets up gives a speech undermining that.

As you heard in local paper we in debt.
Nothing has been rules out taking more pupils / increasing class size/ staff losses or reducing subjects.

No one locally expected them to give up and sell out to oasis/ greenery or 3rd academy mystery mat

Because, as I've pointed out, restrictive entry requirements and pigeonholing kids into groups doesn't actually create choice, it narrows it.

There aren't enough schools in each area to be able to close some of them down to the majority of pupils. You had a sporty Jew who was willing to travel 60 miles to a sporty Jewish school, but for many kids that would be their local school and they wouldn't be able to go to it. Forcing some kids to travel in order to pander to others isn't fair, especially when it's a desperately needed new school you are opening.

If a family wants their DC to go to a sporty Jewish school then they should be allowed to. If their isn't one in their area then they should be allowed to get a bus or train 60 miles away to go to one.

Who would pay for that travel?
What if the journey was too long for that 11 year old?
What if none of those schools had places?
What if them taking that space meant a local child couldn't go there and had to travel miles to another school!

I dont know a lot about the grammar debate but I suspect its to serve the clever poor children who cant afford a house in the elite 'comprehensive' catchment. They deserve a chance to make something of themselves in relation to their intellect, rather than just giving it all to rich kids.

How do you reconcile this with the fact that existing grammars have very few poor kids? And that the tests are biased towards existing achievement and can be tutored for, which favours richer kids?

Suppermummy Maybe your right but why dictate your vision on everyone, what is wrong with choice?

Choice comes at a cost. Who's going to pay for it?

Whatever the statistics say about FSM % at Grammar schools , the one thing that rings true is that they are certainly more socially equitable than private schools !

This is not a widely held view on here . However, various posters tend to be fixated on FSM % rate ,which is no more a defining factor on poverty than a family having a 'Flat screen Television' !

FSM % as a definition of 'relative' poverty is a crude calculation based on a number of assumptions, not universally correct.

The fact is the majority of families would move heaven and earth for their DC to even have a shot at a grammar place this is quite telling thus (away from the 'morally' superior people views on here that everybody should be educated in a 'melting pot' AKA the Comprehensive ).

holme4andy However, various posters tend to be fixated on FSM % rate I'm happy to agree that Grammar schools are stuffed full of children from deprived backgrounds if you can provide anthing to suggest that this is in fact the case.

Sorry OP, I know this is off topic.

As you know from previous postings, that if those who think they are the 'cognoscenti' on this subject have decided what's what that's it !

No amount of 'Qualitative' evidence or personal observations made about grammar schools will make any difference to them.

As far as they are concerned deprivation beings and ends at £15K PA.

Actually they know that is not the case , but because it works in a favorable manner for their cause they are happy to go along with it.

I could for instance say a grammar school friend of DD2 family is on the verge of being evicted from the family home ! This has been caused by her mother throwing out her father who hence has refused to pay the mortgage for 8 months now !

The husband is prepared to lose the house because he 'figures' because of the little equity in the property , he will be financially better off.

Both DD s friend mother and father work full time in decent jobs, so in no way would she show up as a vulnerable child , but clearly is.

She is not the only child i know from my two girls 'Grammar' that are not in the ' FSM' category but are certainly not advantaged !.

Failing free schools cost loads because they have the cost of temporary accommodation whilst the shiny new building is built, then the cost of the shiny new building, then the start up grant. Before you know it you're looking at the best part of £8m, and that's before the per pupil funding. If that fails, it has wasted more than it would cost to keep an existing school open.

holme4andy No amount of 'Qualitative' evidence or personal observations made about grammar schools will make any difference to them.

Some of us are able to make our own personal observations. More so when we are in an 11 plus area bordering other 11 plus areas (where there is a fair amount of cross over).

Both DD s friend mother and father work full time in decent jobs So this is your example of the child from a deprived household or borderline FSM attending a Grammar school?

Well it is my definition of disadvantaged if they end up losing their home and end up having to 'rent' somewhere more expensive then their mothers take home pay !

The point is though you can be a disadvantaged child in a family with an income of over £15k PA and not show up in any figures.

Also quite how the authorities arrive at £15K for FSM is a mystery considering families can even now claim up to £23K in benefit payments (London)

We do not know how many families with children in grammar schools have incomes up to £23/20k PA the same income level as or below the benefit cap .
Clearly a family income of £20K London/ £18k elsewhere is below possibly the amount they could claim in benefits , yet both families would be denied FSM.
For the record :

The mother concerned earns about '£19K' PA , she told me the Mortgage payments are £1200 a Month on a £230K Mortgage .

Clearly the husband who is/was earning around £50k decided it would be cheaper to let the house get taken by the 'Bank' £50-60K equity which he must figure will all go to the 'wife and kids anyhow so why keep up with the mortgage !

Nice Caring Father he is...... Wanker...

All schools get the same money as per funding agreement, as far as I am aware. All schools have set up costs, but in my life time I have known council schools costing £20-38 million to build and free schools costing a quarter of that, so I feel they are better value for money.

The cost of children's lost education stuck in a perpetual failing council school is never mentioned. So to say giving parents more choice is a greater cost is empty rhetoric unless its compared to the cost off failing council schools.

Suppermummy So to say giving parents more choice is a greater cost is empty rhetoric unless its compared to the cost off failing council schools

Do feel free to continue to ignore the fact that it is not just failing council schools that are saying that they are struggling financially. Let see how many of the good/outstanding schools continue to be just that after cutting staff, ignoring maintenance and upgrades and cutting exam options.

Suppermummy02

But free schools are not proving to provide a better education. So they are not better value for money.

BoneyBackJefferson, why do they have to provide a 'better' education. Why not the same education at less cost?

MumTryingHerBest, I am not saying schools dont need more money, but all schools are not given the same money, so we need to make everything more equal before we can really see what schools are value for money.

I have a feeling some of the better funded schools have a lot of fat to cut.

Supper

MPs don't run the country. Don't be silly. Civil servants do.

Teachers should be paid a decent wage. There is money for "super heads" which is ludicrous as research shows that their impact is short term and limited.

There is money. The government has pissed it up the wall.

The Tories have had 7 years in power. We've had dramatic austerity measures yet our debt and deficit still goes up. Austerity is a choice. They chose to make ridiculous cuts and we pay the price.