People who are in favour of grammar schools....

[BertrandRussell]

....what is your proposal for the majority who are not selected?

mathsmum314 Fri 16-Sep-16 21:25:12 The highest performing ethnic group by far is Chinese, Noble your now proposing we teach Chinese style?

You reached that conclusion how?

Are you suggesting we should be teaching English style?

mathsmum314

OK, I'm all ears, explain to me how the new system, which you seem to be very much in favour of, is going to work.

maths I mean the highest performing ethnic group in England are Chinese, followed by Indian. They are outperforming English kids in the same schools as them.

noble, I have no idea what you mean. you seem to be saying Chinese students have a better learning ethic that us? Why do you think that?

Are you taking the piss? I thought everyone knew Chinese children were brought up with a better work ethic than Brits. Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother and all that,

Actually we have tried the Chinese teaching method. Yes it gets results but at what cost? I think the reason why Chinese kids do better is that the overseas have been taught rote and thus memory work is easier. They have no understanding of the subject or gain enjoyment from the subject. The local Chinese often work in the restaurant/ takeaway and it is one of the greatest incentives to work hard and move up. This could be said of any ethnic minority in the UK. These children don't need grammar schools they need teachers that care and a lot of encouragement to keep going. They need good teachers to bring joy to the subject. If you invest in teachers rather than just throw money at making grammar schools then social mobility will increase.
O and yes these ethnic minorities will tutor their kids to death. Is that anyway to live?

Grikes Sat 17-Sep-16 00:23:50 Yes it gets results but at what cost?

The same should be asked of the grammar system.

Grikes Sat 17-Sep-16 00:23:50 This could be said of any ethnic minority in the UK. These children don't need grammar schools they need teachers that care and a lot of encouragement to keep going.

I think a fair number of ethinc minority parents would dissagree with you.

You do realise that QE Barnet has 44.8% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136290

The Henrietta Barnett School has 38.7% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/138051?tab=absence-and-pupil-population

The Tiffin Girls' School has 41.5% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136615?tab=absence-and-pupil-population

Kendrick School has 33.2% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136448?tab=absence-and-pupil-population

Wilson's School has 32.7% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136621?tab=absence-and-pupil-population

St Michael's Catholic Grammar School has 35.7% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/101361?tab=absence-and-pupil-population

Wallington High School for Girls has 29.2% EAL

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136789?tab=absence-and-pupil-population

Theresa May made much of the underachievement of white working class boys. So her solution is to increase places in schools which have significant numbers of ethnic minorities? What will she do, introduce a quota system, to keep some ethic minorities out, but increase the places for working class children?

This could be said of any ethnic minority in the UK

Nope, there are some ethnic minorities which perform very badly. The reason Chinese children perform so extraordinarily well appears to be cultural.

Actually we have tried the Chinese teaching method. Yes it gets results but at what cost? I think the reason why Chinese kids do better is that the overseas have been taught rote and thus memory work is easier. They have no understanding of the subject or gain enjoyment from the subject.

Even if they are born in England, being taught by English teachers in an English education system, they still do better and they do have a very good understanding of the subject.

It is the work ethic instilled by parents and the cultural influence. Chinese parents in particular and South East parents in general put a lot of emphasis on their children's achievement, more than their own sometimes.

On the whole 'NQTs are as good as experienced teachers' thing, this graph just popped up on my Twitter feed.

I can't tell if high flying minorities are being praised for their "work ethic." Or derided for "cheating" on the 11+ by intensive prepping. Two sides of the same coin, I suppose.

I do agree that increased selection on its own will not help white, working class boys as a group.

Noble, what's on the upright axis and what are the two lines? I can't read it.

annandale Sat 17-Sep-16 15:52:24 Noble, what's on the upright axis and what are the two lines? I can't read it.

Does the image enlarge when you click on it, annandale?

Not very much on the phone, will have to wait until I get the laptop back I guess [glares at academically underachieving ds]

X axis is years of experience, y axis is extra months of learning. The two lines are numeracy and literacy. The main takeaway is that more experienced teachers are better at teaching literacy and numeracy.

A fascinating article about the grammar schools consultation here: headguruteacher.com/2016/09/17/grammar-schools-schools-that-dont-work-for-everyone/

The former head of one of the most selective grammar schools in the country who then went to head up a deprived comp gives his opinions of the proposals (hint: he thinks they're shit).

Haha noble. Actually I should thank everyone for stroking my ego. My DH is a BBC (British born Chinese). He went to a comprehensive he did well as he didn't fancy working in a fish and chips shop for the rest of his life. There was nothing cultural about it. Most ethnic minorities will think the same. That is why second generation immigrants often work in professional jobs or become bankers. Unfortunately their children have it way too good. So I suspect this 'culural' difference will level out.
So would these kids do better in Grammar? Then the question has to be asked would they do well in top set in a comprehensive?

If the answer is yes then no. Then what is it that grammar's give that Comprehensive don't? Better teachers ? Better environment?
So why not give more money to teachers to keep the good ones in the profession? Why not create working areas in schools for the geeky kids to hangout. Then kids have a choice...spend money not for politics but for the children.

2Stripedsocks

There are plenty of comps in London where the vast majority of kids are from EM backgrounds, which get very poor results and are challenging places to teach and learn.

And in areas outside London where schools are worse - well the answer is for policies which improve provision for all, isn't it?

Love the way you put "deprived" in inverted commas when you're talking about a school where 70% of kids are on FSM.