If you went to private school, do you feel you should do the same for DC?

[LauraMipsum]

DD is only a toddler so we've got a couple of years, but weighing up private v state education. Private would be lovely, great facilities etc, but would mean both parents working in high pressure jobs and would rule out another child. State schools near us aren't great and moving is out of the question.

I went to private school and I wonder how much of my inclination to go private is a fear that I'd be doing "less" for DD than I got myself. So as not to be accused of drip feeding, private school took me from school-refuser to academically successful, I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult. I also wonder if my ASD has got me into a rigid "this is what's happening" state of mind which I'll later regret when I'm looking at 14 years of school fees.

I don't know much about the state system other than it totally failed for me. Has it changed all that much since the 80s? I feel like I'd be doing my DD a disservice not to try to give her what I had, but equally, 93% of kids go to state school, it's not like I'm condemning her to the coal-mines.

I don't want a state v private bunfight (there's enough of that on the grammar threads) but any insight /experiences would be gratefully received.

"
while you are searching I'll sort the DFE tables to pick out the dozens of state schools that have to cope with

• utterly unconnected/ unknown parents
• desperately poor families
• newly arrived refugees
• children in emergency care
• children with undiagnosed SEN"

These children aren't stupid or necessarily incapable of passing GCSE. In London there are outstanding secondary schools where children in challenging circumstances do pass GCSE. One thing that Michael Wilshaw has done is challenging toxic assumption that child the in challenging circumstances cannot achieve. Low expectations is a form of child abuse.

It's hard to compare deprived children with Pisa, but there is evidence the gap between rich and poor children is less in some countries. (Shanghai should not be in the stats because migrants have to leave their children behind.)

Having rich parents does not mean a child is intelligent. Trust me, a small minority of private school kids are as thick as mud. A big difference is that a private school has the finanical resources to spoonfeed such children.

A state school in an expensive catchment area may have a similar level of wealth to a private school. It's unlikely that a state comprehensive in millionaire's row will do as well as the nearest non selective private.

My local comprehensive is similar to Mum's as well.

And you can provide plenty of extra-curricular opportunities and tuition for £8,000 pa and still have saved £8,000 compared to sending a child than independent.

reallytired
take your head outside the North Circular and look at the aspirations in Hastings and Grimsby and Bourne and Merthyr Tydfil and Gosport

you seem to think - based on your narrow central London view - that private school is in some way "normal". Its not.
the "National" 7% is around half in London and half outside.

Your assertion that "low expectations is a form of child abuse" is part of the reason that the country voted for Brexit.
The arrogance of the cosmopolitan London educated elite thinking that they know better is why the shire tories told them to eff off.
You only consider academic expectations as valid.
Many other people do not.
There are ways of living and skills that do not involve A levels or degrees that you do not respect but should.
Look outside the box once you realise you are in it

"Bottom set kids often have a poor attitude and a terrible lack of self esteem. They have been labelled as thick since the age of four."

Funny how this doesn't seem to be an issue when the 11+ does the same to kids at 10.........that's just "choosing the right school for them"!

I went to a private school and then a (now defunct ) Direct Grant school: half private, half scholarship.

It was not an experience that persuaded me to send my own DC private, and I think the education my DC have had / get in a fab primary and a good comp , is better than mine in all respects except Literature. And that is the curriculum GCSE, not the school.

If I was comparing my private education with some of the comps I saw 25 years ago I might have changed my life to be able to make a different choice.

I give my DC a deep and varied access to art, culture, debate, general knowledge, because that is how we live. I would like to see more of that in the state sector. If you are unable or unlikely to provide a rich-ish arts / sports / outdoor / travel (we do cheap but interesting ) experience for your child, then buy it via the right private school. Otherwise save your money and your sanity and be haspy

Oops! Be happy and engaged parents!

Achieving good qualifications gives choice. Getting a clutch of decent GCSEs does not close off vocational routes. Certainly A levels and a degree is not essential, but having 5 GCSEs including maths and English is essential for many jobs.

Rather than assuming that children in Hastings, Grimbsy or other underachieving areas can't achieve take a look at WHY they aren't achieving. Recruitment and retention of good teachers is a challenge. Certainly parental expectations is a factor, but white working class children in London do better than other parts of the country. London schools doing well may well be partly down to immigrants. But there are other schools in other parts of the U.K. with a challenging intake and reasonable results.

Funding is also an issue that needs to be addressed.

See page nine of my link.

www.lampton.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Twelve_outstanding_secondary_schools1.pdf

With outstanding leadership and good teaching children from low income families are capable of achievement.

Achieving good qualifications gives choice. Getting a clutch of decent GCSEs does not close off vocational routes.

AAAAGGHHHH
Your view is so blinkered it astounds me. Are you Gideon Osborne ?

There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country where C&G or BTEC or nothing at all are the ideal qualifications

who picks your veg?
who swabs the toilets in nursing homes?
who digs the ditches at the side of road works?
WTF have GCSEs got to do with those jobs?

Commercial painters need C&G not GCSE
Tractor drivers need BTEC not GCSE

it rives me up the wall that people who should know better are as ill informed as I was at the age of 21 about the world outside private selective education

Well it all depends on the schools you have to choose from! And your DCs! It really isn't a question of private v. state, all schools are different. Go and look at all the schools which are an option before you start judging them.

DH and I went to private schools. We will be doing the very best for our child and sending them to our local comprehensive school.

I went to private school. I hated it and as soon as I could I escaped to the local sixth form college to my parents' despair. I promised myself I would never send my DC private. The thing I hated most was the all girls aspect of it. DH went to state and is keen for our DC to go private but we could not afford it in a million years. I'm glad about that as it would cause a massive argument. I would agree to private to keep the peace but never, ever to single sex. In the interests of full disclosure though, it was the single sex aspect that bothered me the most. We do also live in an area with great state schools and moved for the schools so I guess we have paid for education in that respect.

I would never send a child of mine to a single sex school. It's poor preparation for adult life. There aren't many single sex work places so why have single sex schools?

I am glad that OFSTED and the government are attempting to stop entire towns being written off academically. It's bullshit to accept mediocracy and most children in working class areas are perfectly capable of GCSE.

Your decorator needs maths to do his book keeping. Level 3 college courses require GCSEs including maths and English.

My brother is an electrican after years of private education. One of his friends is a long distance lorry driver. Both men had learning difficulties at school and were a bit lazy. Both of them have 5 GCSEs including maths and English. I don't think they were harmed by not going down the BTec route at 14. My brother now works in France for ex pats. GCSE French gave him that option even though he only got a D. (His oral French is good, but he struggled with writing French.)

Education is far more than just preparation for the work place. It's making someone able to think critically. It's producing a rounded adult who is tolerant of others.

People from all walks of life voted Brexit. A good education allows people to make up their own minds.

I went to private school as did all my siblings. Of our children three went to or are at private school, one went to a grammar, two to special schools and my two are at state schools. I don't feel that my children are particularly disadvantaged in going to a state school compared with their cousins. Sure they don't have the fancy dance and theatre block, but they are doing just fine and will I think have the same opportunity to move on to an excellent university.

We did emigrate though, which is possibly a bit of an extreme step! One of the reasons we moved was education, and I'm very happy with their comprehensive non streamed or setted school. We'll be paying a lot for university so saving our funds for then. Which may be somethign for the OP to consider as higher education becomes more expensive in the uK.

"Certainly parental expectations is a factor, but white working class children in London do better than other parts of the country."

Possibly because these children aren't to the same extent in educational ghettoes..

There are a good number of schools near me that local middle class parents wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Schools rattling around at the bottom of the league tables. The thing is, there are SOME children at even the least popular schools who achieve spectacularly - and they are almost all new immigrants. Head teachers of these schools must thank heaven every day that there are kids rocking up at their establishment who fully intend to study law or medicine and are prepared to work their arses of to get there. It's good for non-engaging kids to have these role models around them.

My partner went to private school and sends his kids to a local unleafy comp. He's quite happy with it.

Btw I am the parent with the better degree from the posher university. I went to a comp.

I went to a private school and there is no way on earth any offspring of mine would go there. Complete waste of money.

Too stressy, Ok, but some private schools are mixed and some state schools are single sex. Lots of all four sorts round here. And some in both sectors where the sixth form is mixed.

Yes, good point, guess I just hated mine so much I forgot that logic, sorry! I still wouldn't as I remember as a child al my friends living so far away while others played together as they went to the primary school down the road. Also I used to cringe when I had to admit where I went to school as we had really good state schools and people always then laughed and teased when you went to private school. Stupid as an adult I know but it mattered to me as a child and I used to dread the question.
Definitely reduced my friendship opportunities.

Also unless the state schools were truly horrific I would never spend that huge amount of money! I also think that, in general, kids are pushed a lot more at private school. Yes, this means good results. I got brilliant GCSEs. Then the freedom of university went to my head and
I got a 2:2 when u was more than capable of a 2:1 if I had worked.

All just my opinion though!

When I was more than capable, sorry, typing in a rush!

If I had all daughters, I would happily send them to a state single sex school, particularly if they are keen on STEM subjects. I went to a (state) girls' school, and really appreciate that I went through puberty and my teens in an environment where being female was the default human state.

I wouldn't want to split up DD and DS though.

I went to private school outside London. Three of us went and it killed my parents sending us there.

Whilst I loved my education, I would deliberately not choose it for my kids, and we can afford it. I'm unimpressed by most children leaving private school today. I don't believe it educates them about real life. Most are incredibly entitled and unable to put in the hard graft. (I recruit and train university leavers in the company in which I work).

I think a good enough local state, with money for extra curricular and a tutor if needed is far, far preferable. Children don't want stressed out, unhappy parents.

Most of my friends who impress me most (not financially, but in their attitude to life) are state educated. Ironically, most are choosing private whereas many of my school friends are opting for state. This does amuse me!

I didn't go to private school but DP did, when I had DS there was no doubt that he'd be going to private school and DD will be going also.

I went both state and private, and while private gave me a much-needed kick up the arse academically, I was much happier at the state school. Socially, I enjoyed being in a thriving, buzzing environment among loads of kids from different backgrounds. The kids I met at private school were mostly a bit meh in comparison (identikit families with identikit cars, lifestyles, hobbies etc). I know that isn't always the case but it was my experience. Also, only having about thirty other girls to be friends with massively narrowed my social options and I found the resultant 'cliqueyness' quite stifling.

That's not to say that if we could afford private I wouldn't consider it, (I know what you mean about 'the guilt'), but my dcs are very happy where they are at state and have said several times that they would hate to move schools. They have a really good social life within their community, which is so important especially as they are becoming more independent but are still too young to drive. Children we know that have gone private seem to have lost touch with their local friends so they are missing out on those 'rite of passage' experiences such as just hanging out at the park all summer, popping in and out of friends' houses, and racing around on their bikes!! Ok, some would argue that doesn't compare to learning Russian or lunchtime fencing club but I would beg to differ; experience is experience, and learning to socialise freely and independently is important too.
The local comprehensive had excellent results this year; it's no coincidence that nearly all the pupils from motivated, educated families did brilliantly and to the extent that they probably couldn't have bettered their grades if they'd gone private. The school also offers a huge array of extra-curricular options including cadet force, DofE and opportunities to participate on trips such as skiing and (for example this year) environmental expeditions to South America. There is an excellent theatre studio as well as sports facilities such as pool, gym, playing fields etc. Their team sports aren't great admittedly though!

DH was state educated, I went to a state comprehensive until 16 then private 6th form. The plan for DS was state all the way as we have jobs with very average incomes. However, having looked at all available options and considered his personality/abilities etc, DS is at an independent senior school. He's doing well and happy. We shall be poor in old age !

I went to an excellent private boarding school and loved my time there. It was a complete waste of money on my parents part though as I came out with a pretty mediocre clutch of A levels. We have (just) enough money to send our children to the local private schools but have chosen not to, without an iota of guilt.

They are doing brilliantly at the excellent local primary and comprehensive, and with the money saved we are able to offer them all the extra-curricular opportunities they fancy as well as amazing experiences travelling in Africa, Asia, Australia... Even without my moral objections to selective education it was a complete no-brainer.

I think that one of the values private schools are at greatest pains to impress on their pupils is the importance of private education.