If you went to private school, do you feel you should do the same for DC?

[LauraMipsum]

DD is only a toddler so we've got a couple of years, but weighing up private v state education. Private would be lovely, great facilities etc, but would mean both parents working in high pressure jobs and would rule out another child. State schools near us aren't great and moving is out of the question.

I went to private school and I wonder how much of my inclination to go private is a fear that I'd be doing "less" for DD than I got myself. So as not to be accused of drip feeding, private school took me from school-refuser to academically successful, I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult. I also wonder if my ASD has got me into a rigid "this is what's happening" state of mind which I'll later regret when I'm looking at 14 years of school fees.

I don't know much about the state system other than it totally failed for me. Has it changed all that much since the 80s? I feel like I'd be doing my DD a disservice not to try to give her what I had, but equally, 93% of kids go to state school, it's not like I'm condemning her to the coal-mines.

I don't want a state v private bunfight (there's enough of that on the grammar threads) but any insight /experiences would be gratefully received.

"There was a story in the news earlier on this year about how some private schools are struggling because the state sector has improved so much.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/08/26/more-middle-class-families-choosing-state-schools-over-the-priva/"

A - While "Private schools have been hit disproportionately by efforts to cap grade inflation...." the proportion of their students who scored A went from 18.2% to 17.9% - hardly a terrifyingly large drop. Is it even statistically significant? No change in the state sector apparently.

A - "This year the gap has also narrowed when it comes to A grades" - with the difference in private v's state schools A grades plummeting from 25% to 23%. More accurately, the proportion of privately educated kids who get A grades is almost double(!) that of state school kids, and that hasn't changed in any meaningful way since 2010.

If there is a change in enrollment rates in independent schools, I seriously question that it has anything to do with exam results at GCSE based on the data reported in the linked article. The data reported doesn't show any evidence of an improvement in the state sector. That Telegraph headline is hubris- rather than evidence-based.

I went to a private school that gave a fanastic education. I was badly bullied though. School fees have risen by 10% each year and have more than doubled in real terms. Private schooling was not an option financially for my family. We could afford it for primary for one child, but 15k school fees are impossible.

The op has several options.

Maybe she could move to cheaper area/ part of the country so here mortgage isn't so large so there is more disposable income. Or maybe buy a property in a nicer area with better state schools.

Would it be an option to extend the mortgage to help with the cost of school fees? In that way the op would have longer to pay off the school fees.

What about private from 7 or 11. Both state and private reception classes follow the same early years curriculum. The benefits of private education really come into their own in key stage 2 (seven plus) when there are specialist teachers for music, languages etc. She could opt for state primary and then private secondary.

My children are both at state schools and sometimes I feel frustrated about the lack of academic expectation. My private school fostered the belief that anything was possible with hard work. My children's state schools are a bit obsessed with "ablity" and "differentiation" aka as dumbing down.

Most of us have limited experience of schools. Not all state schools are bad and conversely not all private schools are good. You can not base an entire sector on the schools you attended 20 or 30 years ago.

Dap went to fee paying schools from 7 to sixth form. We do ok but not well enough to pay for schooling and feel fine about it. We live close to lots of excellent primaries but the secondaries aren't good. I guess the plan is to move into a catchment of a good secondary when we get to that time.

*DP

Not at all.

I do think that bright motivated pupils deserve an atmosphere of learning rather than barely controlled ill-discipline.

I don't see anything ring with supporting their learning as much as everyone else's.

Wrong...

"differentiation" aka as dumbing down."

Is this what you understand 'differentiation' to mean?

Are you suggesting that all children should do the same thing in the same way, regardless of their reading ability or particular learning needs?

" They already have intelligence, good health, a stable home, the support of two educated and involved parents, and that should be enough, if they add their own hard work to the mix. "
Minifingerz - I thought you said that apart from making your dc practice their instruments, you didn't get involved with their academic work.

reallytired
My children's state schools are a bit obsessed with "ablity" and "differentiation" aka as dumbing down.
Could you explain how "differentiation" and recognition of "ability result in dumbing down.

I'd have thought that testing and moderating and seeking out ability and differentiating pupils into peer appropriate groups is exactly what non comp parents think they are getting

Differentiating between the able students who do triple science
and the less able students who do single science
enhances the teaching and learning experience for all

especially if some of those poor scientists are also excellent athletes or artists so would be let down by streaming or segregated education ....

Well forget the fact that you went to private school and think about why you would want your DD there. Is it mainly results? Because supportive parents and extra tutoring if needed would sort that (without the hefty price tag!). If it's the SN aspect or you'd worry about her not fitting in then I'd say go for state primary and then see how you feel for secondary or even earlier if it comes to that. It seems mad to put yourself under more stress purely based on your experience, she may love state school or she may turn out similar to you and benefit from private. Keep an open mind.

We have dd's 5 and 7 and we are discussing this for senior school.

I'm no longer in the great job I was in before, so it's pie in the sky whether dd's go to private school. My Dh went, and he did ok at private school, but I'm sure a great school could provide the same.

Mil did this for sil the oldest so the others had to go. Sil was a trouble maker so she put her into boarding school

Minifingerz - I thought you said that apart from making your dc practice their instruments, you didn't get involved with their academic work"

We are loving, interested, do what we can to stimulate them. They go to museums, the theatre, get read to and listened to. They're lucky in that. They're lazy though about academic work and so are we. That's our fault though and theirs. Nothing to do with their schools which have encouraged them.

Laurie that's a good point - I suppose it's a mixture of results and facilities, there's just so much on offer at private schools whether it's ancient Greek or sports or music or drama. But at the same time there's plenty of extracurricular stuff available locally in the evenings / weekends.

Not fitting in... well, if she's like me, she'll manage not to fit in wherever she goes I'm hoping she hasn't inherited that particular trait, but also I'm aware of it so if she is I wouldn't leave her to struggle through.

A PP suggested state boarding - I know they can be great, a friend of mine from uni went, but I don't like the idea of boarding unless she is dead keen on it.

Home ed's a possibility too although it would need to be structured and involve doing actual groups rather than the un-schooling approach, just for my own sanity.

My private school had excellent results and brilliant facilities. It got the excellent results by selection at 11, not excellent teaching. They also withdrew children from GCSEs just before the exams if they weren't predicted above a B.
The brilliant facilities were not open to everyone. I was there 5 years and played on the tennis courts once. I was shit so I was sent 'cross country running' instead. I was good at hockey but the other unfortunates got cross country running again. It was the same with netball. They basically coached a team plus a few subs in every sport and sent the rest of the class to piss about on the field. There was an expensive gym that I never saw unlocked, a choir that was by invitation only and string orchestra and wind band whose parents paid through the nose for music lessons.
Mine dcs go to state and I'm very happy with it.

I went to one of the top private schools in the country (on a hefty assisted place as my mum was a single parent struggling to make ends meet) and can honestly say my school experience was amazing. I loved it, the teaching was outstanding, the extra curricular stuff was great (and not just for those at the top) - so many enrichment opportunities that due to lack of funds (and often lack of interest amongst pupils) are not available in state schools. Staff were keen to help pupils, outside of lessons if they didn't understand something. When one of my A-Level teachers left at the end of Yr 12, she said she would gladly tutor us free of charge for our final year if the school didn't find a suitable replacement to take over our class (of 2!). Even the less enthusiastic pupils who wouldn't revise like my sister, still passed all their exams because the teaching was great so even without revision she managed to absorb a lot, and the teachers ensured she completed coursework by keeping her back after school until it was done!

I feel guilty that my children won't get that experience as the school fees for my 2 who are in school (not to mention DD later on) would take away our entire income, and whilst bursaries are available, they only cover a small percentage of the fees, unless you earn under £16K, in which case you can get all the fees paid for, but that leaves a huge gap amongst those in the £16K - £70K+ bracket who can't afford the fees. Maybe, just maybe, if I can get a decent enough paying school hours job, we could send them from Yrs 10-13, but I guess time will tell. So far, I've been happy with their schools, DS1 has just started middle/ high school but all the options for college scare me quite frankly, as even at the best performing college in the county, drugs are rife...

State senior schools are pretty great. Mine have learned Latin, mandarin and Russian as well as French and Spanish. They can play endless sports, including rowing and fencing, and have very strong teams. They also offer sports for their disabled students. (several of whom have gone onto to compete in the Paralympics). Their school part own an outward bound centre in Wales and there are lots of trips abroad every year. There are several choirs and vocal groups and the school productions are amazing. There are science clubs, robotic clubs, debating and public speaking. This is quite usual in state schools as they come across many other such schools at various competitions (as well as Wellington !). They do DofE and World Challenge things. I think there are some slightly skewed views of state schools - most offer lots of stuff. Oh this is a comprehensive.

If we had one of those nearby mumsneedwine I wouldn't have started this thread! That sounds amazing!

Your username has just prompted me to go and get

mum whereabouts are you? prays it's SE London

State secondaries tend to be heavily setted. Often the children in the lower sets are capable of far harder work. They are lazy and demoviated. Interestingly high performing countries like Singapore, Japan or Finland have mixed ablity classes. Asian countries often gave cultures that believe that hard work has a huge affect.

British state schools are very data obcessed. They set their expectations on what a child can achieve on results achieved at 11 years old. Children low sets often don't cover the material because of distruptive behaviour. Lack of expectations leads to lack of challenge.

DD's school does mostly the same as Mum's . Not Russian or rowing though. So these schools can be found. Must admit I'm now a convert to big schools - great facilities and certainly no chance of her being "lost" - her teachers really know her, far more than at primary.

Reallytired - I believe research is not in favour of setting but I'm not sure if middle class parents will buy in to schools that don't set.

reallytired
State secondaries tend to be heavily setted. Often the children in the lower sets are capable of far harder work. They are lazy and demoviated.
Do you have a link for your latter two assertions.

I quite agree that setting is widely used
in analytical subjects it works (sutton trust research)
in discursive subjects the evidence is distinctly lacking

BUT
I'd be fascinated to see evidence that Comp set 5 kids are not being pushed
especially since the Gove/Morgan insanity of wanting all kids to do GCSEs

And to back up HPFA
I went to a small private school and the scale of DCs comp really worried me at the outset
but I now realise that I was wrong
hence why I'm very happy that both kids attend the 2,000 pupil per year group Peter Symonds

Most private schools have a big spread of ablity and are far too small for setting. For most private schools money is enough to get your child a place. Outside London a child does not need to be genius level to get a place. A typical private school class will be mixed ablity.

As far as evidence against setting just look at the PISA results. Very few high performing countries set as early as England or differentiate lessons to the nth degree. Maybe England has a few sacred cows to slaughter when it comes to educational policy.

Finland has no streaming or setting until 16.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland

Japan, Singapore and Shanghai all have mixed ablity teaching for maths.
Another link to show streaming can hurt children.

www.theguardian.com/education/2011/aug/08/streaming-pupils-limits-aspirations

It's rare for educational policy to be research based.

reallytired
For once you are talking utter codswallop
Most private schools have a big spread of ablity
find me the private school with 20% FSM, 20% EAL or 20% unable to pass any GCSEs

while you are searching I'll sort the DFE tables to pick out the dozens of state schools that have to cope with

• utterly unconnected/ unknown parents
• desperately poor families
• newly arrived refugees
• children in emergency care
• children with undiagnosed SEN

private schools by definition take the children of

• parents who are in the top 5% of earners
• parents who are clever enough to get their kids through bursary / scholarship exams

they are thus by definition only dealing with the upper half of cohort

"BUT
I'd be fascinated to see evidence that Comp set 5 kids are not being pushed
especially since the Gove/Morgan insanity of wanting all kids to do GCSEs"

Bottom set kids often have a poor attitude and a terrible lack of self esteem. They have been labelled as thick since the age of four. They don't try as they don't believe that achievement is possible. Worst still their teachers assume that their class is stupid. Often bottom set kids lack patental support rather than intelligence.

Read up about growth mindset.

PS
Shanghai is not China .... Shanghai is like Westminster or Kingston, not the UK
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