Theresa May to end ban on grammar schools

[noblegiraffe]

Theresa May to end ban on grammar schools, reports the Telegraph.

This is not a policy announcement, rather a testing of the waters, I suspect.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/06/theresa-may-to-end-ban-on-new-grammar-schools/

Lots of young people know they are being short changed with the education they receive.

And they know that it's not just an issue of money spent too. They ain't daft!

Lurkedforever1 It's very easy to think the system is fair, when your own situation means your dc won't end up in the bad ones.

The same can be said of those who are endorsing the virtues of the Grammar system. How many of them have put their DCs through the SM when their DCs failed to make the cut.

One of my friends, in their early fifties, told me that they still live with the belief that they are thick and failed because of the 11 plus. They definiately don't speak about their SM schools days as being a great experience.

But mum no one is advocating a country wide selective system. Certainly not the government.

Most DC will not take the 11plus.

Why is everyone assuming that secondary modern = crap? My ds's school is far from crap. But it is part of a system that is socially divisive and psychologically damaging and which very slightly advantages the already advantaged while disadvantaging the already disadvantaged.

Lurkedforever1 it needs to be admitted the current alternative is equally unfair

This is why simply adding more Grammar Schools is not the answer. To move from one flawed system to another equally flawed system solves nothing. It does, however, cost money.

bert the whole of Kent is not damaged not is it more socially divided than other fully comprehensive areas.

But in any event no one ( especially not the government) is suggesting the country replicate the Kent test.

Mum That link you posted was fascinating. Thank you. I liked the part where secondary teachers complained that they took in badly behaved pupils from the grammars but their own top pupils often get transferred the other way! I can see why this would be annoying!

And this bit was also very interesting

"Although there is a small independent sector in Scotland, the evidence suggests that the Scottish comprehensive system receives wide support and there is little or no pressure for a return to a system with schools that are differentiated on the grounds of ability."

I wonder what Scottish comps are doing differently to English comps that people support them much more?

GetAHaircutCarl But mum no one is advocating a country wide selective system. Certainly not the government.

So how will opening Grammar Schools in few more areas make the system any fairer than it is now?

So are people advocating just a few more grammar schools in places where the system exists already to mop up the last few middle class parents whose kids didn't get a place? Or a few more superselectives? Or what?

But in any event no one ( especially not the government) is suggesting the country replicate the Kent test.

I guess the problem is we have no idea of what actual proposal the government might come up with. In fact they are probably gauging the reaction before deciding.

I wonder what Scottish comps are doing differently to English comps that people support them much more?

Scots seem more socially fair-minded. No tuition fees, for example.

BertrandRussell: do you live in an area where it is compulsory to do the 11+?
You said your other child passed the test and went to a grammar school.

mum opening some more super selective GSs will offer high ability children an appropriate education which is currently not on offer in the comprehensive system ( for a variety of reasons).

And it would have little or no effect on the nearest comprehensives.

To me this seems like a good idea.

GetAHaircutCarl To me this seems like a good idea.

I'm sure it does, but then again there are plenty of things that have gone wrong that "seemed like a good idea" at the time.

I frankly would like to have the choice as regards sending my DC to a grammar.

You can't just choose to send your kid to a grammar. That's the point. It might feel like a choice to the wealthy who can do the pick me dance of tutoring, but actually it's the grammar that chooses, and if you're poor, they probably won't choose you.

Children going to private schools have to pass a selective test to get in. Those that don't could also feel like failures. Why don't parents of those at independent schools also insist on there being no entrance tests?

and if you're poor, they probably won't choose you.

How do grammar schools go about choosing a rich child over a poor child?

"Children going to private schools have to pass a selective test to get in. Those that don't could also feel like failures. Why don't parents of those at independent schools also insist on there being no entrance tests?"

Well, yes, many of them do feel like failures! But we were talking here about access to state funded education system.

And I am not saying that there should be no entrance test to grammar schools. I am saying that there should be no grammar schools.

Well here's the thing mum it was identified a long time ago that there was an issue with regards to lack of provision and ultimate outcome for high ability DC in the state system.

Yet there remains huge resistance to accept this fact, huge resistance to do anything about it, huge resistance to agree that anything should be done about it.

Something's got to give.

"How do grammar schools go about choosing a rich child over a poor child?"

Can I suggest that you read this thread? You might find it enlightening.

Grammar schools do not "choose" rich children. The system prioritizes rich/privileged children over poor/underprivileged ones.

I personally would advocate a system of contextualisation for entrance to selective schools.

Certain issues would act as a flag.

Herds by having an entrance exam that favours those who can afford tutoring. By having an entrance exam that favours those children whose parents are interested enough in education to enter them for it. By being seen as elitist, therefore putting off poorer applicants who think 'it's not for the likes of us'. Being single sex can also be off-putting to parents whose own education was mixed. Expensive uniform can be a factor (whether it is actually expensive or not). Distance - wealthier parents are more likely to be able to afford a school which is not the local offering.

It's quite effective, you should look at the statistics.