Getting a refund of 13+ deposit in London

[February7]

I wonder if anyone can help me?

I paid a non-refundable deposit of £2000 to secure 13+ place for my child at a London day school. This school was one of 2 back up plan schools in case my child failed favoured school at CE.

Back up school 1 held entry exams earlier than all London day schools and wouldn't let me hold the offer we received for place 2 weeks until I got results of Back up school 2 exam. We landed up paying 2 deposits as back up school 1 was not for us.. Non-refundable... And then our child was successful at CE at favourite school.

As soon as I heard that my child had got into back up school 2 we called school 1 and told them 1.5 terms in advance that our cold would not be attending. They filled the space dozens of times over and refused to refund the deposit, in stark contrast to the other London school who returned the 2,000 saying it would be "immoral" to keep it as his school was full.

Can anyone suggest how I can approach this best? Or recommend a lawyer who could help?

I'd like to explore the legality of school not refunding a place-holding deposit of £2,000 even though

1. I have given 1.5 terms notice in February that my child would not start school in September.
2. The place were all filled
3. Is non-refundable deposit permitted in these circumstance, by legislation or charities regulation?

In my view this school has simply moved its entrance exams to before everyone else's cynically, knowing well that it is a back up school and using this system of taking deposits as a cash cow from London parents where there are few private schools around.

Any help/thoughts much appreciated

You paid To keep your options open. I'm 100% sure any decent solicitor will just tell you non refundable means just that.

It is a constant amazement to me how many people say "I didn't sign anything" as if it is a get out of jail free card. It isn't. You entered into a contract when you paid the deposit. As long as you were aware of the school's terms and conditions at the time you paid the deposit those are the terms and conditions of the contract. Any unfair terms can be overturned but there is nothing unfair about a term demanding a non-refundable deposit.

There is nothing in charities law or regulations that helps you. If you enter into a contract with a charity and pay a non-refundable deposit the charity is entitled to hang onto your money if you break the contract. The fact you are dealing with a charity does not give you additional rights.

There is nothing in recent case law that helps you either.

As long as the deposit is reasonable and the buyer is aware it is non-refundable the courts will uphold the right of the seller to retain the deposit. If you could argue that you didn't know the deposit was non-refundable when you handed it over you would have a case. If you could argue that the size of the deposit was unreasonable you would have a case. However, from the information you have posted here it seems you were aware that the deposit was non-refundable and the amount you mention does not sound unreasonable given that we are dealing with an independent school in London.

By all means consult a solicitor. I'm sure you will find one who will be happy to take your money to argue in court that you should get your money back. They will, however, expect to lose.

My advice is to give it up. If you pursue this you will simply end up more out of pocket.

I know this is not what you want to hear but it is the law. Non-refundable deposits are just that - non-refundable.

LOL that you think the school has behaved cynically!!! Take a look at your own behaviour! You obviously came on here expecting everybody to say you were being unfairly treated. You decided to "play the game" by hedging your bets and now you just have to suck it up!

Whether you right or wrong to pay a deposit for 2 schools I've heard lots of parents at school discuss this as an option as dates different for 11+ acceptances at local schools, and it is interesting that one Head teacher did refund you? Wonder why that happened?

"And I did not actually sign anything."

Really?

Not even the basic application form which tells you all about the fees, conditions, deposit (which is non refundable) etc. and they still offered you a place without you having signed anything?

An extraordinary charitable school indeed!

Absolutely baffling that you think the school is doing anything wrong LEGALLY. I morally, yes, as they filled the place. However, you didn't enter into a moral contract when you took out your insurance policy of holding a place. You knowingly took a risk with 2k now deal with it.

I lost a prep school deposit as I was using the school as a back up.
It was non refundable so I knew this would happen. I don't think to have much chance.
Forget it and move on - don't let this eat you up.

Surely the deposit is the price you paid for keeping your options open? You make it sound as if the school extracted that money from you under false pretences. But actually you were buying the option to take up a place at that school had you ended up requiring it. As it happens you didn't end up needing it, but that's doesn't affect the value of what you were paying for at the time.

Expecting a refund because you didnt take up the option is like expecting an insurance company to refund your premium because you didn't need to claim on the policy.

The only thing I think you could possibly do is try to argue that this is a donation as private schools are a charity. I file a U.S. tax return and can deduct charitable contributions up to $50k a year but this isn't an option in the UK. The other thing you could possibly do in the UK with subsequent children is pay it through your business but you must offer this to all employees and if you take the place it most probably won't be allowable.

However, you paid a non-refundable deposit. It is just that and you are not going to get it back. You will probably find that proceeds from these deposits are used to offer assistance to low income families.

WanttbSupermum. That would be a great use of the deposit! Very much hope that is what happens to the money if the deposit isn't returned - which sounds likely. Like sh77 if school is full sounds morally wrong they keep money but a bad deal is just a bad deal. Will watch out for small print on forms. The private schools are sharp businesses and this is to be expected I guess. Are they allowed to all agree such big deposits then?

IMO £2k isn't a big deposit to pay. You are looking at spending at least £15k a year in fees for 7 years. It's less than 2% of the total cost. Here in NYC deposits to secure a place are normally one term of fees which is about $25k.

Also it's strange that in UK you guys can cancel pretty much all contract with notice, like the insurance premium and school fees but not this one. Is it breaking the rules in UK to go for more than one place? Most of kids at our school sitting exams for 3 or 4 schools.

Strange thread.
Op asks for advice from MUMSnet
receives what appears to be sensible, measured advice from people who appear to know what they're talking about
winges and says she was hoping for a lawyer and she doesn't agree with the advice she's been given from several different posters.

Maybe we should bring back judge flounce. You might then get the answer you're looking for.

Or I can assure you that you should get the deposit back, absolutely. I'm a qualified pig farmer so you can trust me.

Have I missed any pertinent points? ;)

Don't get the pig farmer but I do kind of get where she's coming from here. It's pretty screwed up that one town/area doesn't have same dates for results at 11+. It's also strange that prices for deposits all the same for all the schools, like they have got together to make it harder for parents. Though I guess you go into it with your eyes wide open but.... Just doesn't seem like best way or organising it. Maybe teachers out there understand why it works like this here. Our relocation agent said school were massive issue in London & they sure are!!

results for 13+ are all on different days as they are different tests, set by different independent (clue is in the name) schools.
The deposits vary hugely from school to school, with the highest I have come accross being £3000.
The (non-refundable) deposit would be meaningless should you get it back if you change your mind - as it is your way of saying you commit to the school. If you subsequently renege on that agreement, you loose your deposit. In other words the deposit should serve the purpose of you thinking long and hard about wanting the school or not before you pay it, and equally before you break the agreement you have made with the school in accepting the place.

Girls schools are much more sensible with single day when all offers have to accepted or rejected ( runs and hides).

Why don't boys schools do the same? So much fairer on everyone. I think February7 is onto something here. This deposit system isn't needed if all results on same day. Of course these schools can just get away with it.

The private schools here give a date but if you call and explain they are understanding. We were not sure and they extended the deadline for us to make a decision until after our son was seen for his development assessment. They diagnosed him as having ASD so we declined their offer as we live over the water in NJ so play dates would be an issue when we have group family therapy sessions for us to all attend at weekends. While its a great opportunity for DD we have to balance the needs of all family members. The school were extremely understanding and said they were extremely impressed with DD so were willing to keep their offer open until grade 8 subject to a space being available.

Many schools do coordinate results, more so at 11+ than 13+ though with an acceptance deadline to tie in with state school allocations on March 1st. A lot of the south London/Home Counties results were out yesterday.

FWIW February7 I just asked my brother in law who is a barrister. His view was that you "didn't have a hope in hell" in the courts because the deposit was clearly non refundable. He also said that there will be plenty of solicitors who will take your case and charge you handsomely for heir (waste of) time. He advised that you forget the episode and get on with enjoying your life.

That's what he said word for word...make of that what you will

I'd happily charge you my usual rate of £675 per hour to take on your un winnable case since you are clearly intent on pursuing this despite the sensible advice you have been given here.

There is a reason why schools charge non-refundable deposits. It is to stop people doing exactly what you are trying to do. Imagine what a mess the school would be in if everyone did what you are trying to do. The deposit is as much to secure your commitment to the school as it is to cover financial loss.

Did you know that if you exchange contracts to buy a house but fail to complete it is well established law that the 10% deposit is forfeit even if the seller then goes on to sell the house for more than the original buyer was paying. The position is no different here. I could send you a list of cases that demonstrate the approach the Court would be likely to take but I can't be arsed.

"If the CE system did not allow schools to opt out of the uniform process then it would be easy to chose schools 1,2,3,4 as with maintained schools"

I think this shows a fairly serious level of misunderstanding of independent schools entrance procedures, so it is no wonder OP got into a knot about it and it is a shame that it lad to a lost deposit.

There is no "uniform" process for independent schools.

CE is not an 'opt out', it's a perfectly good system of making conditional offers which means parents do not have the stress of competitive exams. DC who have a offer at school which suit an their abilities simply will not fail CE. It's a qualifying exam that all properly prepared DC pass.

If you want to go for competitive schools as well, you can. And all the timelines are published, so you will know well in advance that you have to make a non-refundable deposit as the price tag of hedging.

I am quite surprised that the prep did not steer you through this rather better. Everyone gets nervous about exams, but you really should have been advised to accept only an achievable offer.

I agree with previous posters than non-refundable means exactly that. And as it's only about 25% of one terms fees, it won't be found excessive.

It's all very complicated in UK - still just not sure why it is that some schools do their exam at 13 and others do Common entrance but will read up.

Lawyers advice here interesting - 675£ an hour makes that deposit seem pretty small change... ..! Also, how much money do these schools actually make on these deposits.

Any idea!? The bit about whether its moral or not could be guided by that /if they making loads- I see the lawyers on thread keen on legal rights rather than what's morally right!