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Education

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Help Please? Anyone's D got into Haberdashers or NLCS at 4+?

448 replies

funkychic · 11/12/2006 15:42

My D is will be going for the 4+ 'play group' asesssment at Habs and NLCS. I'm desparate to know what they ask them to do. Really need advise from all mums whose child are already in these schools. Pleeeeeeaaaassse help!!!

OP posts:
ExDhsNutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 19/12/2007 13:41

Ok good point spokette - I see what you mean.

Judy1234 · 19/12/2007 14:56

There's too much to answer on here.
Most middle class parents move to a posh typor of area to avoid their state educated children being educated with children from very poor homes. It's standard practice 0 you move out of central London to segregate your children in leafy suburbs so it's certainly not a private school thing only. Obviously you have the same differences between different state schools too. Not all those state schools are sink schools so most parents are selecting one they think is the best state school in their area and therefore trying to avoid rough stupid children surely. Why else go by league tables - why else are so many state schools parents obssessed by league tables and getting their children in the best schools?

You work better in class with children or a similar academic standard which is why many comps stream the children. I don't think there's anything radical at all in what I'm saying.

Second issue is yes you can be very disruptive and very clever, of course you can. Indeed I think the best private schools can take the disruptive clever boy or even not so clever boy and draw out the one thing he's good at so he thrives whether that's sport every day or chess club or whatever.

horseshoe's points are interesting. Obviously as 96% of children go to state schools many many of those do very well indeed but statistically the private education gives you a huge great leg up in all sorts of ways so it's a fairly easy way for a parent to do the best they can for a child. If you can afford to pay and don't then arguably the parent is being as bad for the child as if they fed it hamburgers all day or never read to it. We all try to do our best and those that can afford it find paying fees is one of the very best gifts you can give a child. Horse made the point about saying I had suggested her "child will be less respected in this world ". I hope we all respect people whatever their colour sex or schooling.

But what is a fact is that however unfair this is if you say you went to XYZ school or got AAA at A level or worked at ABC company or speak with received pronunciation or whatever people do treat you differently. Of course it can work the other way - go into a left wing environment and in that area you might well find your accent is held against you as indeed might your A level grades but on the whole you tend to be advantaged if you tick the usual boxes.

I still can't see the difference between paying fees go educate your girls in a school with other clever girls and moving to a nice place where the state school girls are all "nice girls" except that my route is honest and the other route isn't.

On the dyslexia thing I think it's a bit of a side issue. You can be very clever with dyslexia and not very clever. You can't generalise. It certainly doesn't make most children disruptive although it can cause some to be disaffected with school which then leads to disruption.

These academic schools have 5 - 10 applicants per place in competitive exams marked without sight or name of the child to ensure no bias. It's a very fair system (except for the fact of payment of fees although there are some who don't pay as some on the thread have said). Most of the children who are clever enough to get in don't get in. It's a lottery in a sense so of course if you're IQ is low or you can't write you aren't going to get in at 11+. It's like any competitive environment but they're lovely inclusive caring schools for those who do get in. I think the private sector has always been better able to cope with difference and delight in it than your average state school. Am I not right that there's more thumping people for being different the lower down the socio-economic classes you go because people are less clever and less understanding and accepting of people who are different?

As for disruption in class I would never pay to have that and private schools have fee paying parents and they know the parents want the children to work in an environment where they stand up when the teacher comes into the room, work well, call the male teachers Sir etc. It's a better way to work.

By the way someone talked about weeding out. Very very very few children are weeded out as far as our experience goes. Occasionally a child may be at the wrong school. At other times they just lose their interest in teenage years and might leave but on the whole the cohort they take in at 5 will run through to 18 at some of these schools. Indeed my oldest her two best school friends from age 5 are all now at 23 by some coincidence all still doing the same thing.

Not sure if I've answered all the questions.

Many parents of children with special needs fight to have them educated separately too - it's a difficult subject and depends on the child and their individual issues.

hercules1 · 19/12/2007 15:27

Well, yes, we certainly did chose our house area for the schools and live in a very expensive area whereas really our income says we should live somewhere else where house prices are more reasonable.

Yes, we did this so that we could get a good choice of state school rather than not having the choice.

But ds had kids with sen in his class at primary school, did very well, could I know have got into a grammar/private school but we chose to send him instead to a very good state school for secondary.
That doesn't make us bad parents, we made different choices for different reasons. We wanted him to recieve an all round education which he will where he is and mix with all sorts of people.

I have no worries about how this will affect him as an adult. Not everyone shares the same values about judging people or cares. I appreciate that in your world, Xenia, these things such as accent etc are important but they are not in mine. THat doesn't make my children any less intelligent or well mannered or confidant than yours, it means my world doesnt revolve around money and who went to which school.

I respect your choices as that is what is important to you. I object to Bella Donna who wrongly believes dyslexic children or children with sen will misbehave and bring others down.

Judy1234 · 19/12/2007 16:35

In many work places and organisations in this country if you have a certain type of education, IQ, looks even and may be class (although not so much these days)/accent then you do better. It's just how it is, however wrong that is. But what I want for the children is to achieve all they can and have a lot of choices and I think by the education they have had which in aimed at the all round person and as much at those who will throw those opportunities away and do other things as those who take them on with relish I think they've done well out of it.

I certainly didn't send them to Habs or NLCS for the accent. Children speak dreadfully at some of those schools. They are not posh schools... like... typical teenager speak.

It's a fairly pointless discussion because most parents have no chance of earning enough to pay fees. If someone can afford fees and doesn't then that's an interesting issue. If children do batter on most scores then why not pay? Is it better a happier parent with new shoes and a nice car or a parent resenting paying fees and wearing older clothes? Is it a question of then the parent putting their own spending first before the children?

hercules1 · 19/12/2007 16:55

or is it better to have a state school with parents who are not frazzled, stressed and spend lots of quality time with their kids or a private school where the parents are always at work?

hercules1 · 19/12/2007 16:55

or is it better to have a state school with parents who are not frazzled, stressed and spend lots of quality time with their kids or a private school where the parents are always at work?

hercules1 · 19/12/2007 16:57

Dh is a sahp (very recent). If he worked again we could easily afford private schools. However, he is at home looking after them, cooking them meals etc. For us this is better for now anyway and a lifestyle choice we made. He will go back to work but to a different career, less money but more family time.

needmorecoffee · 19/12/2007 16:57

I don't like the assumption that SN = disruptive.
Reminds me of when some yummymummy type objected to dd in toddler tumble tots cos her physical disability would 'upset and disrupt' the other children.
Disrupt how? Only if they were as bigoted as their mother/.

hercules1 · 19/12/2007 16:59

That's part of the problem though. Segregation leads to fear and ignorance but intergration doesn't.

Judy1234 · 19/12/2007 17:10

Too big a price to pay though over all - would you let your children be bussed into a Tower Hamlets 99% bangladeshi school or on to the worse council estate in London to achieve integration? I wouldn't.

PoinsettiaBouquets · 19/12/2007 17:15

Anyone read the thread on Relationships currently, entitled "But we took you to stately homes..." ?
Don't know why but I'm reminded of it...

jinglebells2shoessmells · 19/12/2007 17:37

By BellaDonna79 on Wed 19-Dec-07 09:17:05
Look, as Xenia says I'm simply vocalising what many parents are too apprehensive to say. Everyone wants the best for their children and I'm no exception! I think it is good for my kids to mix with children with SN but I don't want them in the same classroom with children who shouldn't be in mainstream. I prefer them to be educated with children who are equally as bright and well behaved. And I refuse to apologise for that.

I have to say that is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on mn. How sad that someone can be so warped as to post such bigoted views.

southeastastra · 19/12/2007 18:03

i personally wouldn't want my children educated with those who had parents who thought like that anyway. would you 2shoes?

needmorecoffee · 19/12/2007 18:21

perhaps Belladonna means that while she wouldn't like her children to mix with SN riff-raff, its ok to view them? Like in a zoo?
Or perhaps pity them?
My dd is bright and will be in mainstream, maybe she'll be sat next to your child. And we are finding its the non-SN children who are calling her unpleasant names. Never had a SN child call her anything mean.
And my SN son is doing 12 GCSE's. And gosh, his dad who also has Aspergers has a farking PhD and went to Latymer.
But given the tone on this thread I would rather my children didn't mix with Bella or Xenia's children. Who knows what sort of bigoted mindset they might pick up. Actually I do know. dd1 was at Colston Girls school for a year and I took her out as she was picking up atrocious habits and narrow minded attitudes about people's worth being linked to money and possessions and the snobs there told her to be ashamed of her sister. She'll do far better in life without that background.

needmorecoffee · 19/12/2007 18:25

And Xenia, all 4 of mine could go to private school despite our riffraff background cos the in-laws would pay (dd1 won a scholarship as she's so bright) but they wont. The attitudes on this list make me glad I don't take up the inlaws offer. As Home ed kids they are kind, generous and mix with every type of person and judge poeple on who they are, not snobby accents or amount of money or clothes or ability. And they are aware that SN kids aren't scary or disruptive but are people too and that every single one of us, and our children, are but one accident or disease away from being SN themselves.

PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven · 19/12/2007 18:40

Hmmm, ds1 has an IQ of 135+- and Sn. Please don't assume that having Sn means youa tre naughty or have a low IQ. Thats simply not the case at all, very naive indeed.

Even if it were though, better a tolerant child who can communicate with their entire community and value each person for what they are, than a high achieving professional with abcolutely no compassion.

fortuantely most schools manage to combione the education and compassion but pretty well.

FWIW at 4 it was suggested ds1 take all the scholarship exams for the local preps by his Montessori teacher- we refused for various reasons but having read excerpts from the AHberdashers thread recently he'd have sailed in- his verbal age at 5 was 16 - 21. Yet he has ASD and that will always be very much a part of him and yes, a slight drain on the educational resource he uses. But what the other children gain from him being there- for example those selected to form his circle that helps support him in the playground- amazing experience that if DS2 (NT) were selected for, I would jump at. The sort of experience of ife you can't get from a book.

Blossomhill · 19/12/2007 18:48

This whole attitude of sn = disruptive child absolutely sickens me. I really am so saddened by the bigotted views on here.
How dare you lump children with sn in a single category. They are all individuals just like everybody else

needmorecoffee · 19/12/2007 18:49

Whats wrong with a school with 99% bangladeshi children?

PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven · 19/12/2007 18:53

Nothing NMC,

indeed remember reading about educational attainment in bangladeshi famillies as part of my Sociology AS- quitre notable in fact

Personally I like the a good mix of everybody approach to education. And the rounded child that results.

needmorecoffee · 19/12/2007 18:57

And while I'm up here on my soapbox. For those considering tutoring or pushinga 4 year old into a place like Habs or NLCS...I used to be a clinical psychologist working in London at the Institute of Psychiatry (Maudsley Hospital) I worked with anorexic teenage girls. 70% of them were at various London private schools and were bright over-acheivers. (this was 15 years ago)
Every single one of them wondered if her parents loved her for herself and every single one thought they might lose their parent's love if they 'failed'. I sometimes wonder what became of them. They'd be early-30's now. If they lived.
I will admit this was the early 90's and pushy London. I don't think the pressure is any less now even if its more touchy-feely.
Anorexia is a form of self harm and comes from low self esteem even if the girl appeared bright and confident. Most of the parents had no idea their daughters felt that way until their lives were at risk. so very sad.

TenLordsaLapin · 19/12/2007 19:00

Actually NMC there is a HUGE atmosphere of competition at school. I was made to feel a failure for missing a goal at lacrosse, for example (not that I really gave a toss!)

And when I bombed my A levels they really weren't that interested in me any more.

And I have turned out a very competitive person! Although in my line of work that's an advantage...

PeachyHasAFiggyPudInTheOven · 19/12/2007 19:00

NMC, used to live on site a a psych Unit for adolescents whilst doing my nursing so have seen very real evidence of the misery of anorexia 9actually ahd eating disorders myself and can recognise what you say for sure).

horseshoe · 19/12/2007 19:20

All very good points.

I have to agree that from the people I have worked with from that backgroound all have either distant or strained relationships with their family. They might be doing well but I would much prefer close relationships.

I remember reading one of Belladonna79's other posts recently where she was stressing about another mum at the school. She was stressing about school play parts and awards and the competition between the parents.....

Thank god I have better things in life to worry about LOL

needmorecoffee · 19/12/2007 19:22

I wish I just had those things to fret about. dd only has a 50% chance of living till 10. So maybe she wont be upsetting non-SN parents after all...

spokette · 19/12/2007 19:35

NMC

Focus on your gorgeous children and leave the bigots to wallow in their shallow smugness.

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