ALL NEW; WHITGIFT/TRINITY/DULWICH/ALLEYNS 10+/11+ 2016

[MrsPatmore]

Thought I'd go ahead and start. Found the old threads really interesting and would welcome ongoing input from those who've been through the whole process.
Ds in Year 5 and we are looking at a mixture of grammar schools and indies for 11+ Whitgift recommended this year - we've been told there is a drive to raise academic standards. We're going to the Open afternoon on 10th Nov.

I should of course have added that the question at hand isn't really linear. It may indeed be harder to get into say DC or W if you are a certain type of child coming from a certain type of family.

As I've said before, it's always been remarkable to that while the academic profiles of the boys in the four schools are very similar, their socio-economic, cultural and ethnic backgrounds tends to be quite different.

ahh firefox now I feel I need you to expand on that and give me the stereotypes of the boys at each school....

Do people think it would be mad to apply for one school only, especially from the Whitgift foundation? I really like only one of the two, and given the exams are literally paired, with no day off in-between and no rest for the kids, I just wonder if it is best to give our favourite school the best shot, be fresh for exams, etc...

It depends on your other options tbh. I suspect that many parents go into the process with a favourite but that may change during the course of the process, especially if one school or other offer a scholarship etc.

We didn't sit dc for one of these schools, as we had a clear favourite but we certainly didn't sit just for one school.

If you sat for T and knew that it was a bad day, then you would still have a good chance of doing a late registration for W in the week after the exams in January and sitting their late test.

I agree it depends on what other options you are looking at and what you will do if you don't get the school you are hoping for.

Lots of the kids will be doing multiple exams in a week - my child will be doing 3 in a row with day off.

DC definitely easier to get into than Alleyn's but that's partly a numbers thing .. Far fewer places on offer at Alleyn's

Eldon .... I wouldn't say that there's a particular stereotype of boy at any of the schools actually. All have sporty types, geeky types, musicians etc. DC and Alleyns take fewer from state school than the Croydon schools but much of that is down to geography.

Alleyns is by far the most monocultural, something that they are, in my direct experience, very defensive about. Whether that is something that is or isn't important is a personal thing, but it clearly is a fact. DC is much more diverse than it used to be but neither are as diverse as the Croydon schools. As I said earlier, the academic profiles are similar, despite this.

When all is said and done, none of these school are easy to get into and our DCs should be applauded if they are able to get into ANY of them.

That's very helpful; Ladymuck thanks a lot, I didn't know about the late registration opportunity at W!

It feels like trying to juggle so many balls: there is an option of being admitted to Sutton grammars or Bexley grammars; and tbh I've never been in a position when you have to wait for so long on something that involves a drastic change to your life and yet have not got even information to plan/understand the process (the fact that none of the Suttons give you the score if you passed)! And then of course deciding whether all these exams will overburden your child! DS got very tired by Wilson's which was last out of 5 exams. How crazy is that!

Really dislike this feeling on not having full understanding or control...

I agree that it can be stressful, and sometimes rather frustrating. But most people get a school that they are happy with at the end of the day, and however many schools you apply for, ultimately he can only go to one.

I would view the late registration route as a last resort rather than a guaranteed option, but I certainly know of boys who have contacted the school after the entrance exam and managed to sit their reserve date. The school doesn't have to allow you to sit, but usually seem to be happy to take the £20 late registration fee and lets you do so. And at the end of the day they are looking to take the brightest boys who will thrive there, so there's no reason for them to turn potential candidates away.

Yes, attended Open afternoon. I have to say it was the most pleasant and well managed of all the Open Days so far and we received a lovely letter yesterday thanking us for coming! The administration seems to be top notch.

As to the afternoon itself; took us one hour door to door (via trains). I wasn't as 'wowed' by the school building as those of Dulwich but the reception was very warm and the boys were very impressive. The Head teacher gave a most inspiring talk about Whitgift boys being supported to do anything they wanted to do (although he did say he was stepping down next year). He actively said that there is a broader academic range and they do very well by all of the boys. I think however, from the enquiries made at ds school, that they will be looking to raise academic standards and are encouraging applications from boys who would consider the very top tier of schools. The Head Boy's speech was the most impressive I've heard at an Open Day.

Facilities were great, saw the Peacocks and a few other birds! The teaching staff were very enthusiastic and engaging and the boys who showed us around were very down to earth. The boys seemed to say that it doesn't matter too much if you aren't massively sporty/high level sporty as there are lots of other sports/interests that can be pursued. It was a very mixed school culturally and we liked that.

The trouble for me is that ds is very shy and finds it difficult to talk to adults he doesn't know. The admissions secretary was talking to him and she did very gently say to him that he basically will need to 'sell himself' (not in so many words!) - the children need to be enthusiastic and want to actively take up the opportunities Whitgift can offer and get that across at interview. He does join in at his current school but most definitely isn't in the Alpha Male category. I think this is probably the case for many of the more competitive schools and I wonder if he will 'fit' in at any of these schools (I got the same impression at DC). I'm hoping they won't want a class of very confident boys! The school he seems most suited to and would be a good fit is Westminster Under but he stands very little chance there as there are very few spaces at 11+, it's a very gruelling testing process and he won't talk much.

I havn't seen Alleyns yet and that might be a better fit but again, very few spaces.

Did anyone go to the Independent Schools Show in Battersea this weekend?

Just looking at the forms now

I find questions about what other schools you are applying to and what are the names of your friends who are also applying for this school somewhat intrusive

Mrs Patmore my son is in year 7 at DC. The school has so many boys there seems to be a niche for everyone. My son is not a "typical" Dulwich boy - completely non-sporty, not musical, not into drama either, but a scholarly type and avid reader and most certainly not an Alpha male!! He has joined many societies and has found like-minded children. The kids in his class are also really lovely and supportive of each other. We did some interview practice with our son to help raise his confidence but at the DC interview most of the questions asked were academic fwiw.

Judging from last year's leavers results from DPL which sends lots of boys off to all these schools (albeit at 13 not 11), I'd say T seems harder than W at the moment. For W there were 8 scholarship offers but only 1 place accepted whereas for T 3 boys accepted their offers but only one got a scholarship. Oddly, 4 out of 5 got scholarships to Alleyns which I'd always have agreed was the hardest to get into.

DPL send a huge number into DC - I think it usually makes up about half of the DC 13+ intake each year (about half on scholarships) so I do wonder whether that impacts on the 'type' there.

Admittedly, one schools leavers isn't a very scientific measure as it obviously depends on which boys applied to each school in the first place e.g a higher proportion of the boys who applied to Westminster got scholarships than those who applied to T - because only the very brightest boys will have been encouraged to apply there. That said, I would assume that those encouraged to apply to T/W would he been broadly similar in ability.

MrsP - I don't think you need to be an Alpha male to fit in at Trinity. My Ds has been there for 4 years, since starting in Y6. He was a social boy, but not really a leader type. He wasn't sporty (although has ended up playing rugby for the school in the lower level teams), he wasn't particularly musical (although was invited to join various choirs and hasn't stopped singing since, and is heading off to Japan on a tour in a couple of weeks time). He is clever but not brilliant. He loves school. He has fitted in well, and has made friends. The staff are supportive, approachable and really know the boys.
Eldon - I don't think we listed the schools on our forms, just put undecided!! We certainly didn't have to give the names of friends applying (although coming from a state school, we didn't really know anyone else!)

Thanks for those reassuring messages Vivienne, Wandy and Seeline. I think we'll just go for it and see what happens! I think I need to be hard nosed about how many applications to put it as I've read on another thread that it's a very tiring process for the children (ds will already have been slogging away for the St Olaves/local grammars by then too). I might try and narrow it down to 3 applications; one (very!) aspirational; WUS, then either Whitgift or Dulwich (possibles) then one local almost dead cert (but ds not too keen on going to that one).

How many are you all trying for?

Vivienne we may have conversed on last year's thread. My son is also in Y7 at DC and matches the description of your son very closely. Maybe they are friends! I think the size enables a wide variety of 'types'. Mrs P I don't think Alleyn's would fit someone lacking confidence. We were offered both but DC seemed gentler (not academically, just in atmosphere and tone) if that makes sense. They are all good schools.

Thanks Seeline

MrsPatmore - we are doing 3 private and then state (not grammar)

If you want to know how well the schools talked about here compare look at the Sunday times school league ranks for independents.

Whitgift is gunning for raising it's academic power to compete with likes of KCS and the central London independents hence why they justify their higher fees.

There is not much in it to be honest and they all are good but it's obvious they all have their own strategic plans for the future.

So folks, the wait is finally over and no more speculation, talk and "... oh what is going to happen to my little DS now that the head is leaving?..." - all here in B&W and a few other colours. Seems like a decent fellow with the requisite skills and more importantly, time on his side. Wish him all the best.

www.whitgiftfoundation.co.uk/content/new-headmaster-appointed-trinity

For those dc taking the tests next month, how are all of the preparations going? Can you give any advice on what should be covered by this stage please?

It's hard to know "what should be covered", because these schools all know a good proportion of their applicants will come from state schools, so it should be possible to pass the exams from what is typically covered by mid-yr6.

If there are VR/NVR papers, then I think it's getting to the time when the scores have become consistent (pupils, once thoroughly familiar with the style of question, tend to plateau).

With the Christmas holidays now in the offing, it's a case of making sure your child is throughly switched on for the exam, but nit at the expense of losing the rest and fun of the holidays.

Whilst wrecking Christmas holidays is undesirable, it is worth trying to sit a day's worth of papers in one go, as doing the 4 papers that W set for example can be quite demanding, and many children only practice one at a time. In January they will be sitting these on consecutive days, so it is wroth doing some stamina training!

I have been reading this thread with great interest as my DS will be sitting some of these exams in January. He is not well prepared at all as he currently attends a state school and we only decided a few weeks ago he would sit these exams. We've just done 2 of the Dulwich college past papers. He scored 76 on the first one and only 80 on the second one. I thought he would be doing much better as he is generally good at maths. What is very frustrating is that 100% of the mistakes were careless mistakes (he gets the more complicated problems at the end right!) and of course he finds the right answer when I tell him to have another go. English is hit and miss, depending on the comprehension text and topic of the essay. The rest (VR, grammar/punctuation/spelling) is OK.
You must have done some of these papers with your DC... What sort of score are they getting in maths? Honestly...? Don't be scared to depress me, I just want to have realistic expectations going into these exams as I also need to manage my son's expectations.
Many thanks

Good point on the stamina training Ladymuck

sissie you need to prep them in exam technique eg skipping questions when they get stuck

That's a very good point EldonAve , thanks! I forgot to say that I didn't even time those papers so his marks would have been worse under strict time limit Regarding his English, I should have mentioned it's more often miss than hit. I thought I could count on the maths but I think I will now have to rely on his lucky star