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Following on from "privileged education" thread how can my future state ed dd's get the "natural confidence"?

95 replies

indiana7 · 14/03/2015 22:40

I really enjoyed the "privileged ed" thread & another similar one on secondary ed forum. I have 2 dd's & they will definilty be state educated due to our lack of finances I am a sahm & although dh earns very good money his job is quite unstable. We would go private if we had the means which unfortunately we don't.
The one thing that struck me from both threads & my own experiences in my own line of work is the inde school confidence. My collegues used to make me quake in my boots even though they were just lovely, they had an unwavering self belief, never second guessed themselves.
I want my dd's to have this sense of self-worth(I don't have it). Any advice on how to foster it at home? All opinions welcome but would be interested to hear from parents with dc at inde schools already. Is this confidence nurtured at home or school?

OP posts:
sittingherebymyfire · 14/03/2015 23:11

I have two DC's less than 17 months between them. We are a stable happy well adjusted family, both have had the same life school experiences and loads of opportunities of all kinds.
DC1 as a baby was very sociable he would go to anyone, DS2 was the complete opposite. But as they grew up DC1 became less confident DC2 more confident, by their early teens DC2 came across as very confident with lots of self belief, DC1 confidence was non existent. Now late teens DC1's confidence is growing by leaps and bound, DC2 has become a little reserved and is very self effacing although appears very confident.
I'm sure we can foster confidence in our children by exposing them to loads of things, loving them to bits and giving them a secure home life but there inherent personality will also have an impact.

bcareathe · 14/03/2015 23:29

Interesting question. Two things come to my mind:

First, I think a lot of it is about self-presentation, and actually I think it's gendered (women tending on average to lack confidence, compared to equally competent men) as much as being a state/private thing. In some social environments (the private girls' school I attended, for example) it was the done thing to express a lack of self-confidence. If you said you weren't nervous about an exam or about giving a presentation, for example, people would think you were getting a bit above yourself. When people talk about "inde school confidence" I think they're often talking about other, often boys', schools where the opposite seems to be true - where the done thing is to express confidence in yourself, even if you don't feel it. This obviously affects how confident people think you are, but also, I suspect there's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy angle to this. If you get into the habit of expressing self-doubt because it is expected, you probably feel more self-doubt than if you're in the habit of expressing self-confidence because that is expected! Neither is the right course all the time, falling in with the expectations of the society around you isn't always bad, and you can't alter the social environment all alone, but I think as a parent you can help your child to notice things like this, and make a conscious choice about how to present themself, rather than just falling in with what's expected.

Second, for real confidence you need competence - that's so obvious as to sound patronising, but it applies to some "transferable skills" that seem to be more typical of what private schools do than what state schools do, although I'm sure there are exceptions both ways before anyone jumps on me. For example, my fairly shy DS doesn't worry about standing up and talking in front of a room full of people. He's had to do this frequently since he started at his prep school aged 4, as has every other child there. What I hear from my friends with children at our local state primary is that there are opportunities for children to do that, but they're not nearly as frequent and they're typically optional (e.g. there's a class assembly and some members of the class will speak, but not everyone has to). This is a small thing, but it might be the difference one day between being worried about the process of giving an important presentation to the board and only being worried about the content. And that one could be addressed by encouraging a child to take the optional opportunities, join the drama club, do debating, whatever.

TheWordFactory · 15/03/2015 08:30

I have teenaged twins ( privately educated).

One is obviously confident. She will take the lead in a show, sing a solo, give a speech. She actively enjoys these things.
She is the opposite of a paranoid person ; thinks everyone is for her rather than against Grin. Ultimately it is version of optimism I think.

Her brother is different. Much quieter, much more shy with people. However I've noticed that he has a quiet confidence IYSWIM. He has faith in himself. Will step up to be the first shooter in a penalty shoot out. He's naturally very relaxed and so doesn't worry if things might not go the right way.

senua · 15/03/2015 09:03

When DD started in her new sixth form she was approached by the House Captain to take part in the singing competition. She said yes. He was gob-smacked. Most newbies giggled and simpered and did the "what, me!?" routine.
However, DD had had singing lessons for years, had been in choirs, had taken part in (and won!) competitions etc. It was second nature, so no big deal. I have the same conclusion as bcareathe that it is a consequence of competence and practice (the two being intertwined).
DS can't hold a tune to save his life but he found his own competence, practiced like mad and became accomplished and confident in his own skin because of that.
Both of these skills (DD music, DS sport; both outside of school) take place in a public platform so both have, unconsciously, got used to being in the public eye and not being afraid of it. It has given them an inner conviction, poise and leadership (not to mention friendships) that I admire and envy.

I just threw all sorts of extra-curricular activities at them until we found a few that gelled with their natural skillsets.Smile

NotCitrus · 15/03/2015 09:37

I agree with the above - "fake it until you make it" is how people become confident. There's a fine line between pushing kids to try and encourage, and pressuring too much, but some pushing is needed for most children.

The most useful training course I've ever been on in my life was where they said "in turn, you will stand at the front, we'll write a subject on the board, then you have to talk about it for three minutes." After doing that a few times in front of other 18yos, public speaking holds no terror for me at all - even if I've sometimes had to say 'Good question, I'll get back to you on that" rather a lot...

I got the public school education; my dcs aren't, so this is on my mind a lot. There's definitely a boy:girl split in how teenagers are expected to act - but also there's a lot of Old Etonians who aren't the ones who end up in politics and you don't hear about.

sunnydayinmay · 15/03/2015 10:03

My boys are state educated, and I have also spent a lot of time wondering about this.

I was state (pretty dodgy comp) and ended up a good university, studying law, and surrounded by private school students. It was clear I was as able but just didn't have the outward confidence to speak out in tutorials etc. I think this has enabled them to get better jobs, pay rises years later.

My eldest, in particular, already lacks confidence when he is not certain of his ground. I am thinking drama and speech lessons are going to be the way forward. Friends with dcs at Public Schools say this is taught as a matter of course in their schools.

I agree, you are always more confident if you know your ground.

noblegiraffe · 15/03/2015 10:18

I asked my DH who went to a private boys school and is very self-assured how his school did it. He said that because everyone had to pass an exam to get in and his school was very good there was a constant affirmation of how able they were and how they were simply better than everyone else. Misguided, but I guess that feeling stays with you.

MumSnotBU · 15/03/2015 10:33

I think it's possible to model confidence to your children.

It's not about thinking you're better than everyone else (arrogance) just that you see yourself as anyone's equal, able to respond in a positive way to whatever life throws your way.

So don't put yourself down, criticise yourself or play victim. Show them how you look for solutions rather problems, and if there are things you struggle with show them how practice or a little learning can help you improve.

I suppose the private school idea, which I think is probably a false correlation may result from confident people doing better financially and then privately educating their dcs.

TheWordFactory · 15/03/2015 10:41

I think confidence comes from knowing you're good at things, bit it also comes from giving things a go even if you're not a hundred percent prepared.

Over thinking things leads to procrastination, avoidance of risk.

The most confident people I know are not afraid of failure. Their self esteem can take it. This allows them to go for gold.

chemenger · 15/03/2015 10:51

I think the self-confidence of the privately educated comes from a subtle difference in the relationship they have with teachers and then with other authority figures. In a private school environment there is perhaps less need for the teacher to be overtly exerting control because of fewer behaviour problems so the pupils are less wary of them and therefore more confident in their interactions with them.

Preciousbane · 15/03/2015 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

senua · 15/03/2015 11:40

The most confident people I know are not afraid of failure.

I think it's more the Kipling thing of 'treating those two impostors just the same'. There were times when DC didn't win the singing competition / sports match. But as long as they were learning from the experience, moving in the right direction and there were more wins than losses then all was well.

SomewhereIBelong · 15/03/2015 11:42

I agree that being good at something brings confidence - DD14 is good at playing piano, can pick up the latest tunes by ear and has a go playing them in the music rooms at school and in her music lessons - it has made her become "looked-up-to" as someone who can do something that most cannot, but that many wish they could (me included).

It gives her a boost, which makes her feel more confident overall.

TalkinPeace · 15/03/2015 12:25

I have two State educated children one of whom exudes confidence and is happy in any social situation, the other of whom does not.
I have brought them up the same and given them the same opportunities but they are different people.

TBH the main thing you can do is to show confidence in them that they can - if they work bloody hard - achieve anything they want.

And use the money not spent on school fees to add enrichment to life

  • travel
  • sport
  • arts
  • good food
  • hobbies
Enjoyingmycoffee1981 · 15/03/2015 12:33

Our two will be privately educated. Eldest starts year 1 this year. We are pulling him from an incredibly good state school. Main reason is class size, but also we would like him to have the polish that comes from being privately educated. Confidence is a big part of that "polish".

You can do a tremendous amount at home to help in the development of your girls becoming confident self assured people. However, the confidence that emanates from privately educated people is a little different. There is a dollop of arrogance in the confidence. I don't think it is a bad thing, I think it is the trait that often propels these children in to the really powerful jobs.

TheWordFactory · 15/03/2015 17:06

senua you're right about failure. One of the best ways to learn nit to be afraid of it is to experience it.

You try something. You suck at it. Nothing bad happens.

juneandjuly · 15/03/2015 17:23

I have read a really good book called "What's Stopping You?" by Robert Kelsey. It's about how and why intelligent people underachieve and has loads of great tips on how to counteract it. I have found it really helpful as I am quite an anxious person and quite bad at organisation/procrastinating.

I was educated at good state schools for most of my childhood and a private school as a teenager. I then attended a red-brick university and then Oxford. One of the things this has given me is that I have met many different types of people and now known that going to private school and Oxbridge doesn't necessarily mean you are super and has stopped me from thinking 'X must be much cleverer than me because he went to Cambridge'. Most Oxbridge types are just normal-bright, not geniuses.

One of the most important things, I think, is to learn to take complete responsibility for one's successes and failures, and resist the temptation to blame social class, childhood etc. It sounds harsh but is actually incredibly freeing. A lot of people get it into their heads (or are told) that because they are from a working-class background or didn't go to Oxbridge then they can never really succeed, which can become a very damaging self-fulfilling prophecy. So much of professional success is about simply appearing confident even if you don't feel like it.

Another good book (excuse the cheesy title) is Secret Thoughts of Successful Women.

Muskey · 15/03/2015 17:43

Dd was state educated until the end of year 4. She is inow and tear 6. When she was in state school she was badly bullied and I think her way of dealing with it was to pretend to be super confident and was therefore always asked to read in church, take the lead in school plays etc. in her new school all the girls are given the same opportunity so they all have a similar number of lines in the school play etc. they all do drama as a matter of course. I also think because everyone is given roles that are all considered important it gives the girls real responsibility. Dd is a prefect and the secretary for the school council. Therefore dd confidence is now something that is real. Dd even volunteered to do a duet at the Christmas carol concert which is actually something way out of her comfort zone.

HungryDam · 15/03/2015 18:17

Thanks for starting this thread OP, it is really useful!

cressetmama · 16/03/2015 09:06

Read yesterday that it is a good idea, if at all possible obviously, to make certain your DC is not at a school where s/he is inevitably doomed to be in the bottom third of the class. We did this to our DS when we chose a very academic school. Now he is much happier and has regained self-confidence from being in the top half at his comp.

cressetmama · 16/03/2015 09:06

Read yesterday that it is a good idea, if at all possible obviously, to make certain your DC is not at a school where s/he is inevitably doomed to be in the bottom third of the class. We did this to our DS when we chose a very academic school. Now he is much happier and has regained self-confidence from being in the top half at his comp.

haggardoldwitch · 16/03/2015 09:19

I have two socially confident teens.
We dithered about paying for education and in the end moved into the catchment of a really good comp.
We used the money to pay for extras like tennis lessons, tutoring when needed and exotic holidays.
Lots of their friends are at fee paying schools & I don't think they feel like the poor relations.

cressetmama · 16/03/2015 10:09

Sorry... double posted!

Springisontheway · 16/03/2015 13:21

Lots of good posts with some advice I intend to follow!

I can just add that being physically active is fundamental. It's small, but crucial. Kids who get out and try things and do things build up a sort of confidence in their own bodies that radiates confidence generally. Good posture, confident gait etc. I think everything helps, not just team sports: swimming, hiking, biking, running gymnastics, dance, even rough housing. It's not important to be a the best or a star at anything, but just at ease in your own body which comes naturally from using it a lot.

Relaxed, confident body language really helps others to interpret you as confident generally.

bobthebuddha · 16/03/2015 13:32

"A lot of people get it into their heads (or are told) that because they are from a working-class background or didn't go to Oxbridge then they can never really succeed, which can become a very damaging self-fulfilling prophecy"

juneandjuly, that's an interesting comment. I went to a private school from 8-18 but never acquired the confidence or polish. Aside from the education not being fantastic, I had a parent at home with exactly the attitude you describe. This on constant display alongside perpetual negativity, no praise and extreme academic pressure killed any confidence!

DH went to a very elite public school but he was constantly bolstered at home with praise and affirmation. He has the outer confidence, though inwardly such things are often more fragile than they appear. But I read his headmaster's published diaries and you would not believe the appalling things some of the kids at said school had to endure in their home lives.

So OP, I'd say it's as much about what kids are getting at home as at these amazing private schools. Affirmation and encouragement without undue praise, a sense that there's a wider world they should engage with directly (with work & voluntary experience as early as possible for example) and treating and speaking with them as intelligent beings with valid opinions are all just as valuable as anything their school alone can give them Smile