Following on from "privileged education" thread how can my future state ed dd's get the "natural confidence"?

[indiana7]

I really enjoyed the "privileged ed" thread & another similar one on secondary ed forum. I have 2 dd's & they will definilty be state educated due to our lack of finances I am a sahm & although dh earns very good money his job is quite unstable. We would go private if we had the means which unfortunately we don't.
The one thing that struck me from both threads & my own experiences in my own line of work is the inde school confidence. My collegues used to make me quake in my boots even though they were just lovely, they had an unwavering self belief, never second guessed themselves.
I want my dd's to have this sense of self-worth(I don't have it). Any advice on how to foster it at home? All opinions welcome but would be interested to hear from parents with dc at inde schools already. Is this confidence nurtured at home or school?

kestrel - "if you care about your social reputation, you still have to be careful not to imply that your ideas are better than other people's, in those situations where they come up with some." Surely that's a useful skill to learn for the world of work, too? There are effective ways of convincing others that your ideas are the ones to follow, and ways that result in everyone hating you, and nobody wanting to follow your lead. You don't want to end up responsible for a team of people who will go out of their way to undermine you at every opportunity because you were stupid enough to imply that they were stupid... It's not just at school that people don't appreciate their ideas being squashed and not just at school that you have to deal with people you consider to be less talented than yourself.

Why, oh why, does mumsnet have such a stupid spellchecker? Sometimes kesstrel with two ss is exactly what you wanted to type... grumble, grumble...

Had a debate in RL with a few mums about this a couple of weeks ago - mix of private and state educated, but all our children are private. Private educated mums didn't even really 'get' what the state mums were saying. Really had no idea of extent to which the state sisters had had to 'fake it till we made it'.

All the mums in the group were, I guess, alpha mums (v successful in our very different fields), but only one had been a typical alpha girl at school. Yet we'd all done great at school, gone to the best unis, and generally trod very similar paths, wih really full lives outside of work. But the big difference was that the state ed mums had all felt they had either held themselves back at certain times, or had forced themselves to go against their natural inclination in order to 'go for it' whereas the private ed mums couldn't get their heads round this fear of failure (they were quite shocked when all the state mums admitted to it).

What was interesting was that the debate came about as part of a discussion about indie vs grammar. The state mums all firmly believed that £35k PA was a price worth paying for the indie option, whereas the private mums were very confident that state would be fine if the schools was good. Things like peer pressure to not appear clever, potential lack of constant affirmation, potential drop in competitiveness, potentially different parent-student relationship, and possibly less discussion-led teaching had not occurred to the private mums, but were all cited as perceived differences between state and private by the state mums (wrongly or rightly) and were considered to be the building blocks that lead to the confidence thing, as was the concept that in the good private schools kids aren't allowed to fail academically, and it would be considered that the school had failed, whereas having kids not reach their potential was possibly an accepted part of grammar life.

Debate ended, by the way, with the state mums all even more concrete that they definitely wanted their kids to end up like the private mums in the group, with totally unshakeable confidence, and that it was a price worth paying.

Meant to say that state mums all agreed that very difficult to build that confidence outside school, whereas private mums all thought a few museum trips and some strong parental influence would do the trick.

Lemon hope, totally agree. I appreciate that people feel shy - I do occasionally, but to not make an effort and consider the feelings of the other party also is just plain rude. Thinking of it that way really helped me overcome it.

Dh and I were both privately educated and I think we can both chat easily to anybody. My school friends parents were often very senior in their fields and I learned very quickly to feel comfortable in social situations. Very little fazes me now. I'm equally happy making small talk with our office cleaners or the company chairman.

Hmm. I was state educated and I very strongly believe that you can build confidence wherever you like. Some people, however, are more sensitive to peer pressure than others. I have to say, though, I was never once in my entire school career got at for being a "swot" or "clever," and never felt the need to pretend to be something I wasn't in order to fit in. In fact, it seemed to me that trying to be something you weren't was the best way of attracting bullies with a radar for bullshit.

Very interestingly, there was a huge survey in the US on outcomes vs predictions in terms of measured IQ, and the biggest single factor wasn't parents income/academic attainment/attitude or any of the normally cited references, but it was peer pressure/influence. Will dig it out if I get some time away from the kids today.

TheBlessed, what a fascinating discussion! I wish I had been there! Is it part of a research project?

However, I chose my own peer group - I wasn't such a noddy no-mates that I had to beg to join any group going. I didn't make friends who put pressure on me to do things I didn't want to do... Therefore, if they had more influence on me than my parents, they still didn't influence me to behave in ways I didn't like...

TheBlessed - did the survey look at personality/character traits at all?

I reckon a lot if it comes from parents.

Not necessarily what they tell their kids, but how they act.

Some people have a lot of social anxiety, imagine being snubbed by "rivals", look up to the elite, look down on the "chavs", suck up to those with a higher social status.

Whereas those who treat everyone the same (in a nice way) and have no hang ups or status anxiety, will be natural and confident with anyone.

Baby Ganoush that's a good point, I do agree that social anxiety doea rub off on kids. My mom had a terrible reverse inferiority complex & always felt children got roles in school plays not by merit but because "they were doctors daughters" etc I always felt I never measured up. I want my dd's to be supet confident & feel they are entitled to whatever they want(within reason!!!) because they worked hard & are just as worthy as everyone else. I am crippled with social anxiety due to my mothers inferiority complex.

I was state educated from the off (co-ed comp) but as an adult people are always surprised at this! After all, I have a PhD and speak naicely. My parents did loads and loads for us though - foreign travel (including 2 stints of living abroad for a few months with Ddad's work), sports, lots of museums, concerts, theatre - it helped massively that I grew up in central London - reading, lots and lots of reading, music lessons and really nurturing what we were good at. There was also an expectation that we would do well. We've all done pretty well, and certainly the extracurricular opportunities we had enhanced our schooling. I have huge admiration for my parents now, for the energy and effort they put in to this. It wasn't costly though - I was on FSM through secondary school.

Ahem, clearly my awesome state education didn't teach me about paragraphs

Blue Run that is hopefully what we will be able to do, my girls will be state educated but we are hoping that plenty of travel, exposure to the arts, plenty of cultural outings & extracurriculars will be enough to make them well rounded. I'm sure not enough to close the gap but to give them a broader education ourselves so they won't feel like a fish out of water if they find themselves in "cultural" situations!!! We place a great emphasis on books here in our house too!

I think part of the answer is to be more sociable in your own home. My friends' most confident children have grown up watching their parents socialise happily, "serving" stuff etc and eventually joining in on some age appropriate level. We fail epically on this score as nobody is ever invited to our house as DH has a huge chip on his shoulder about the plates not being good enough etc etc

Replying to the OP and not getting diverted by the banking crisis! How to give your state educated DDs the 'confidence and gloss' - send them to an excellent state school! Even if it means a tiny house in the right area and shopping at Aldi/camping/no eating out except for bargain lunches! At my redbrick

Sorry - hit post by accident! At my redbrick Uni most of my friends were independently educated. However they had no more polish or confidence than the state educated in our group. We were remarkably similar. The ones that did stand out were from the proper public schools from Winchester / Marlborough / Cheltenham etc. They were still lovely but apparently supremely confident. And as different from those from bog-standard independents as from us state educated Grammar-school types!

I think it's about walking tall, openness, competence, and kindness. Like Jill above I also think presentation matters, whether we like it not. It helps to be well spoken, not necessarily posh but tenses and the correct use of language matter. It also helps to be well groomed whatever one's style and most importantly to smile and to be gracious. It's tiresome to hear about what stopped you, what your problems are, all sorts of inner turmoils - those things can be dealt with on-line on mumsnet. My MIL is very good at this and drained the joy and hope from two of her children because of it.

The best lesson of all is the one my grandma taught me. "There's no such word as can't".

I have two children one is uber confident and one is a quiet soul. Her quiet soul though has learnt to project herself with the help of drama, albeit a passionate love.

My DH and his sisters were told constantly that people like them shouldn't talk to people like rich people, go to posh restaurants, go on posh holidays, have nice stuff, etc.. It was an extraordinary contrast with the drive to get them to university because their parents hadn't been. They did all go to RG univnersities but sadly his sisters have never had the confidence to work at professional jobs and have a very glass half empty moany mentality.

DH had a fantastic role model in a neighbour who encouraged him to follow his dreams.

opal you have to remember that many from "proper public schools" have boarded often from an early age. They are used to shifting for themselves, living away from home and working, playing, sleeping along side all sorts people some who they might not even like that much, to board successfully you have to be a master at reading situations, happy to experience new things and quickly adapt to your surrounding, home sickness is rarely a problem. I suspect at university the ease which they can do this along with other factors gained through being at a "proper public school" makes them come across as "superbly confident" although I also suspect not all were.