Level of family income required for private school fees?

[TheABC]

Had an interesting discussion with DH over tea tonight, after reading in the independent supplement that the average cost of fees per term for a day boarder is 4k. We are approaching that in nursery fees for DS and it's a struggle. I can't imagine trying to juggle that sort of cost for two children over 7 or more years. However, clearly a lot of people are, as 6% of all UK pupils are privately educated and I doubt we have that many millionaires.

DH thinks the income ceiling is around the 80k mark, I think it could easily be lower, depending on family circumstances (e.g mortgage commitments). Who is right?

Lots of posts upthread have said you can't afford 2 DC's school fees out of ordinary professional middle class incomes now. Fees inflation has been so punishing that the middle is being well and truly squeezed out. ISC research on affordability published last month confirms this rapid trend.

Within 15 to 20 years only the super rich and those in receipt of charity will send their DC to such schools with disastrous consequences for public perception. The risk of stigma in the future is a factor any parent should take into account now.

Granola what will the disastrous consequences for public perception be?

Dd attends a private school since year 5. We don't have a mortgage and our combined annual income is about £55k. The fees for dd school do not come from our income but come from Money that we have saved

We have a household income well in excess of the 80k mentioned up thread. But we live in London, with a large mortgage, and large travel costs. Childcare at c.£35k pa has meant lots of things not replaced - car over 15 years old; household stuff ancient; etc. We also pay towards care costs for a relative.We have opted for our local primary school. As have most of our neighbours with similar incomes. We could "afford" private primary, but then we couldn't do lots of other things. I'd make the sacrifice if we needed too, but we don't. One of the many parenting decisions you make. I'd rather be a generous, kind person with time than a stressed out parent scared of not making school fees and a holiday.

Dapplegrey1 It's already started. For the first time ever, fewer than half of parents polled on behalf of the ISC said they would send their DC to private school if they could afford it.

Independent schools are getting a reputation for offering exclusive luxurious lifestyle services to the wealthy and they carry a stigma as a result.

Now that journalists, MPs, Charity Commission civil servants and other influential people can no longer afford the fees, it won't be long before they get stripped of their fiscal privileges. Centuries of good work will have been destroyed. It's their own silly fault.

Yes I am reading like crazy these days about private vs grammar as we are getting closer to the time. Every where is pointing that if you can afford it then a million time choose private

Granola thank you for answering.

Just recalibrated my outgoings and have figured out that it needs 3k a month after tax to pay for one junior and one senior independent, both day. (Fees, bus fares, music lessons but not trips.) That will go up. For the record I am not getting anything in the way of "luxurious lifestyle services" , just good facilities, sound curriculums, solid teaching and some good musical experiences for our kids. Though given last year's increases (I moaned about that on another thread) I won't make it to the end if those increases are compounded. Need to become oligarch possibly. I've already changed profession to cope.

Are you happy with the school Rougedad?(in term of if its worth the money paid!!?)

You need to be so careful with private schools. They can let you down by making the fees unaffordable after you have already started paying them. And/or they can be unsafe:www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/education/exclusive-more-than-100-private-schools-given-notices-to-improve-by-the-government-1-7631761

Yes Greenleave, though more precisely I am happy in absolute terms with the quality of what is being delivered (though in one case a bit more academic focus and rather less time on sport would be nice!). Whether it is value for money is hard for me to say. I was state all through and never imagined going private for kids, and was driven to it by sheer frustration with local primary, and therefore have no other significant benchmarks to compare with. Some replies with kids at a Kent grammar are also very happy.

Thank you Rougedad, I am very happy to hear, it means that there is a better choice if I accept to pay. At least now I need to know what to plan(in terms of not buying a bigger house and stay with our mortgage and starting saving for the fees and preparing for private 11+ entrance instead. We unfortunately dont live in Kent(a friend of mine has her daughter who has 5 grammar school nearby offered her a place)

The costs definitely vary though based on the school it isn't 20k a year round here. There are also some costs associated with state schools lunches, trips, bus etc so it isn't against a comparison of zero.

We have 2 dds and are looking into it for secondary. We couldn't afford prep as well, but as we aren't paying for prep we can save, we aim to save dd2's fees before she starts. Income 85k but we don't have a big mortgage. We are grammar school area but it's very very hard to get in.

It isn't easy though, we won't be able to move house etc although tbf we are quite happy where we are.

We haven't actually decided btw, but I dont want money to be the barrier to them going to the best school for them.

To try to help answer the OP's question. Here is the nitty-gritty for us:

DH earns £150K/yr Gross.

We pay £1,600 month is mortgage.

We run one car which we own outright (4 1/2 years old).

DH pays 9% into defined contribution pension scheme.
£250/month goes into a SIPP for me.

We have no independent income streams (no buy to lets, etc.) We live solely off DH's income.

Have decided to use private secondaries, after using state primaries. Are just about managing with first DC. But see we will not have enough to fund the second. I am now interviewing for full time roles. I will only be able to command a salary of about £50K. It should be enough to cover 2.

I think what's hard is to reconcile the gross pay with what you actually have per month and how that works for individuals. I would guess that the net pay from 150k is less than many people think. 85k when in fact it's both of you working (and therefore 2 tax allowances, no higher rate tax and eligibility for child benefit) is probably more than it sounds . I also think that there are lots of different costs depending on commute, size of house (heating etc), area you live. .....

DH "only" brings home, net of tax, national insurance and pension contribution £5K/month. He usually gets to bring home a net bonus on top of that of about £8K in the spring. Still a lot of money. But the school fee is about £1300/month for one child.

There is no transferrable tax allowance between couples so, our net family income is less than it would be if we were earning equal portions of the gross.

Obviously, your husband is similar to our total combi, he must bring home after tax roughly nearly £8k then there could be pension etc. Normally we are ok but lately the last 3 year every year we have smth happening(new loft, conservatory, garden etc) so we havent had much on the savings. Will need to start thinking about saving seriously with our head now set in private route

I guess greensleeve that it depends on level of pension contributions for one thing. And the bonus is obviously included in the money also. It sounds lower than I'd have expected though, dh and I also net about 5k, dh is self employed though so we tend to plan our expenditure annually rather than monthly.

Yes, we have our >20%pay in pension as a top up too and still bring home that much. Our 2 biggest spendings now are childcare and mortgage which eat more than half of our income after tax then there are private Arts lessons, language lessons, musics..on top of the Nanny cost £200/month. Swimming for the whole family is a cost. Travelling is ok as we live in Z4 and travel to the city. Bonuses are ok but we are not sales or traders so only ok nothing big. Car insurance and council tax is more than £4k a year. We go home once a year(we are foreigners so presents, flight tickets, expenses could be £5-7k even on with economy). I am now putting my new year financial plan and still dont see anywhere we could squeeze more things as yet. The only way is to ... earn more(oh well!!!)

Reread my post, all the extra activities cost £200/week.(not month) (£75 music, £50 arts,£50 foreign language, chess and swimming lessons about another £25/week)