Level of family income required for private school fees?

[TheABC]

Had an interesting discussion with DH over tea tonight, after reading in the independent supplement that the average cost of fees per term for a day boarder is 4k. We are approaching that in nursery fees for DS and it's a struggle. I can't imagine trying to juggle that sort of cost for two children over 7 or more years. However, clearly a lot of people are, as 6% of all UK pupils are privately educated and I doubt we have that many millionaires.

DH thinks the income ceiling is around the 80k mark, I think it could easily be lower, depending on family circumstances (e.g mortgage commitments). Who is right?

It's not just doctors that can't afford school fees though is it MN164 there are lots of middle class professionals who would have started their careers soon after completing their undergraduate degree in their very early twenties. I think the thread has focused a lot on GPs and consultants despite those professions only making up a fraction of people who can afford / would previously have been able to afford school fees.
If somebody has an 11 year old and was finished university prior to that child being born then the parents would have completed university before the property boom and might have been able to get onto the property ladder before prices got stupid.

I was thinking of everyone when I mentioned age!

My post about age was directed at MN164, I thought that was made clear in my post.

consultant in their late 20s

Wow - I know a fair few consultants, including members of my extended family, friends, and my children's parents, and nobody made it to consultant until their late 30s/early 40s - I must just be associated to a huge bunch of underachievers!!!

sorry I meant my children's friends' parents, not my children's parents!

My oh became a consultant at 34 and that was seen as quite early!

My brother was in his 30s but I cannot remember now the exact age. My father was doing his medical exams until he was 30 or more but he was probably a consultant by the time I was born - he would have been about 33. In fact my parents waited until they had been married over ten years and both worked to ensure that when they did have children they could afford school fees. My grandfather did not marry until he was nearly 40 for similar reasons right back in about 1916!

Jilly the Chinese will not pay for state at 15k. Most Chinese are full boarders so will be paying around 30k. They really do their research for brand name schools. You will find nowadays in any brand name indie you will find a contingent of Mandarin children. The stereotypes are true very good at maths and hard working. They go to a UK brand indie to learn skills other than academia. I find the Oligarchs children are also very smart too. They too seem only to go for the brand name indies. How do they find the money to pay?

It's interesting isn't it. There are two Chinese boys in my sons' year (from China living with relatives locally - they are day boys at a day school £15k a year - private school).

I imagine it may be those who cannot get into selective private schools who might consider the state school option.

The Sunday Times said:
" THE families of hundreds of youngsters from China are paying up to £15,000 a year to secure places at some of England’s best state schools.

Up to a dozen schools and colleges are already raising funds by enrolling foreign pupils and dozens more are considering doing so, said James Kewin, deputy chief executive of the Sixth Form Colleges Association, which represents nearly 100 sixth form colleges in England.

About 1,000 pupils from China and Russia are paying fees at top state schools this year. “In terms of the income it is phenomenal and a lot of schools that have been hit by public sector cuts are seduced by that,” Kewin said.

Head teachers say that without the extra income they would have to reduce teacher numbers and cut art, music and sports classes. But education experts warned that British children faced being “squeezed out” of the best schools and the top universities such as Oxford and Cambridge if the trend continued.

Alan Smithers, professor of education at Buckingham University, said: “Some state schools are now behaving like businesses and taking advantage of the voracious ambitions of Chinese and other overseas students. The downside is that British students may be squeezed out of places that would be valuable to them.

“Chinese pupils are remarkably successful. Whether it’s because they are driven on by tiger mothers or a fear of job insecurity . . . they have the ambition and work ethic to get excellent exam results and enter our top universities.”

Richard Huish College in Taunton, Somerset, which was recently deemed “outstanding” by inspectors, has about 60 overseas pupils in the sixth form, most from mainland China. A new boarding house is being built to enable it to increase that number to 120.

The college’s principal, John Abbott, said the school received £4,560 a year for a British pupil from state funding but charged £12,000 for overseas pupils, a sum that will rise to £15,000 next year.

Abbott said the extra income enabled him to continue with music, art, drama and sports classes that he would otherwise have had to axe. "

I wonder if we allow Chinese to do this if a parent could afford £15k but their child could not get into a UK state grammar whether they could apply as an over seas pupil for a place then?

Like I said they do need to be a brand name. The Mandarins are only intrested in the best for their children. I do know one practice amongst universities which I find distasteful is local allocation and international allocation. Where a child who did not get the grades to read a subject on local terms were allowed on as international terms. If your not good enough your not good enough no matter how much you pay.

So yes I do think the locals will get priced out eventually. Then what will happen?

Then what will happen? Well, what is happening? An increase in support for nationalist parties.

Without the income from many overseas pupils, a lot of private schools will not be able to survive, so they benefit the situation.

A new thread has appeared this morning, now that fee increase letters are arriving:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2342368-Private-schools-cant-read-inflation-figures?

It's hard to pinpoint a salary minimum, as people spend differently on things. Some people have a huge mortgage, others don't, some insist on a foreign ski holiday + a foreign beach holiday + some other foreign break every year while others stay at home, and others run several large cars. Many parents save on one or more of those things to educate two or three kids in independent school. There are certainly parents I know on small incomes who have grandparents who help contribute to private school fees as the grandparents believe in the private education also, and other parents who don't have a hefty mortgage because they now live in a (paid off) home they inherited, etc etc. As to a minimum if you don't have such lucky breaks, you just need to add up the school fees (make sure you calculate what it will be in senior school or the final years also), add in about £300 a year per child for uniform, trips, music instruments or whatever extra clubs they might choose (with a 3% increase each year) and see if you can afford it, along with childminder/ holiday club / nursery fees etc if you work or have smaller ones needing childcare.

Sorry, havent read the whole thread. Are we saying that STATE schools are going for overseas students - does that reduce the number of places for Uk children?

I agree with Kenlee. The Chinese are looking at brand name schools. We have to be very careful that these schools dont get too greedy and these schools then become chinese, russian, Middle Eastern schools.

My son goes to one of these brand name schools and unofficially I believe that they are wanting no more than 10-15% overseas pupils as it changes the culture of the school.

We are having a similar discussion. Our starting point is we don't want to spend more than 30% of our take home income on private education. With that simple figure, the pre-tax income required works out as follows:

school fees in the £4000 per term region. 1 child: £77,000 p.a; 2-children: £154,000

school fees in the £5500 per term region. 1 child: £105,000 p.a; 2-children: £210,000

taken into account total fees would be roughly 25% more including transport, food, school trips, uniforms etc

I can think of better ways of investing £250k which is cost for two children day school where we are for primary through to sixth form.
Kgresh on a net salary of £154k I do think two sets of school fees would be a challenge

Allow 20k per year per child for the cost of education. After that, it depends on how you want to live. Small terrace or flat in a cheap area with good public transport links and a frugal lifestyle? House in the country with ponies?

My state grammar school took fee-paying boarders from overseas. We had lots of girls from Malysia.

Wait, state schools are making extra money taking overseas students!?

When did this start? And up to what % will they take (roughly)?

VERY odd situation when state schools are becoming part private! Seems pretty tragic for British DC wanting to go to good states.

Mine was in Northern Ireland. It also took fee-paying pupils who had failed the 11+. It was standard practice in the 1990s.

Couple of good secondary school annual fee without trips is above £25k. I have 2 kids with assumption of only secondary and 5% inflation then its close to £400k. Its a tough decision!!! (And we earn more than £150k between us but with a big mortgage)

"Wait, state schools are making extra money taking overseas students!?"

Not really. State boarding schools can take pupils whose families live overseas (though they must be British or EU nationals). And they pay fees on the same terms as British residents (ie teaching is free, but boarding and extras are payable).

Norther Irish boarding grammar schools charge tuition for non EU students. My old school no longer offers boarding, but I looked at a similar school which still does and they charge £6,600 a year for tuition and £10,500 for boarding. For day pupils, it's a state grammar school, so they don't pay to go.

I never thought we would need to send our kids to private as coming from one of "developing countries" we thought every school here especially the outstanding or selective grammar must be too good to our children. Well, after having my daughter goes to an outstanding state for nearly 4 years and live in the uk for nearly 11 years we are planning to send her to a private secondary and might be a private primary for the younger one too. We have a big mortgage, for now it looks like we will just be able to afford it but education for our kids is important to us for us to happy to sacrifice some other dreams( having a bigger house in our area, more holidays etc)