Eton, Winchester etc. planning for the future

[WelshParent]

Dear All,

I am new to MN and this is my first post. So please be gentle with me if I do something wrong. I don't have one specific question but a bunch of related questions which I hope I can get some answers to.

OK, so we live in South Wales and DS is in yr3 at the moment at a local indie in Cardiff. It is a very good school but it is a full 3-18 type and produces very good A level results. DS is a bright kid and does lots of extra curricular activities including piano, tennis, swimming and ofcourse football. Teacher thinks that he is very good and is working at a level higher than expected.

Like many other parents we aspire for DS to be able to move to somewhere really good like Eton or Winchester. I have spent months and months reading about the admission procedures of each of those schools and some others like Harrow, Radley, Abingdon etc.

My first question is that if DS takes the pretest at Eton or Harrow and is offered a conditional place when time comes, I imagine they will want him to take CE. Now being in a 3-18 school he will not have been expressly prepared for CE. We do not have any good Prep school in S Wales, so that is not an option for us. Where would that leave us? Both of us spend a lot of time to guide him with his academics and would not have a problem preparing him for CE purely from a syllabus perspective but we do not have CE preparation experience. Would some private tutoring be enough over the normal school work (which is at quite a good level). What about subjects like Latin which may not be part of DS's school curriculum. Is dreaming of KS or Election a dream without being in a very good prep?

Secondly we are managing to afford school fees + other activities + uniform + childcare etc. of about 12k per annum as of now. We might be able to afford another 4-5k by really pushing ourselves. Now our total yearly take home is about 52k (gross of 79k) both working f/t. We do have some other commitments like financially supporting DH's mother, who lives abroad. So even though the 52k looks alright. We don't live too luxuriously at all, we do have a biggish house and pay a mortgage of about 1200. We don't have a huge lot of equity in it though. I know it is a speculative question but based on this are we likely to get a bursary if DS gets an offer or will our income work against us.

I will be ever so grateful for any replies.

ancient - x posted but I agree and so does my Wykhamist son - v. funny.

It's fun but also dotty. Pete and happy are determined to promote their choices for their boys. happy comments on - and is well-informed about -loads of schools so she gets my vote (and my DS went to Eton).

These schools take 13 year old boys. My guess is that 85% (+) of Etonians would flourish at Winchester and vice versa. Boys adapt. Both schools are excellent. The other 15% might or might not like the rather "full on" Eton experience or the Winchester emphasis on academics ahead of all else.

Uniforms, single rooms etc are parental preferences.

Good grief! I go away for one day and it all kicks off.

I can't be bothered to read the whole spat, but I will say this about peteneras. His DS was a KS, so many of his comments do not reflect life for the Oppidan boys.

About happygardening I'm afraid that quite a lot of what she says about Eton is flawed. She claimed upthread to know boys at Eton who had failed to make friends because they had single bedrooms. I put this to DS and his friends yesterday, as a matter of interest, and they completely dismissed this as a theory. They love their single rooms, need them to get away from it all from time to time and said that it gives them a very real lesson in respecting each other's personal space. One of them pointed out that if sharing a dorm was a prerequisite for making friends at school, then nobody at a day school would have any chums either! I'm not going to claim that all the boys are ectastically happy all the time, but there are many reasons why teenage boys can feel sad and lonely at any school.

She makes no secret of her dislike of Eton and, what she calls, its 'brand' and ethos, in a way that implies some incredibly rigid system to which all boys must conform, whether they like it or not. I spent yesterday at the school discussing A level subjects with some of the incredible individuals who teach there, and all I can say is, if this is the Eton 'brand', then bring it on!!! Their enthusiasm and knowledge of their particular subjects, their friendly and welcoming attitude to the boys, their knowledge of degree courses and the sort of careers the boys subsequently move on to made for a fascinating session. One beak, who has only been teaching there since September, said he had been surprised at how the staff spent much of their time thinking about how they could help boys more, and encourage them further. Many of them obviously receive regular news and updates from old boys.

We love the school, and would be very hard pressed to find any point upon which to criticise it based on our experience so far.

Indrid Eton has the money to attract the very best teachers so of course they will be fantastic as they are in equivalent academic well funded 'top schools'.

I think both single rooms and dormitories have major advantages so as children are adaptable they will highlight the positives of the situation they are in.
I do think though that slavish devotion and lack of objectivity regarding any school is misplaced and does the school no favours for prospective parents.

I forgot to add that boarding schools are supposed to forge closer friendships that day schools. Living in the same boarding house promotes that, sharing dormitories promotes it even further to a sibling level (with the mutual tolerance required). I still think that the best of both worlds are shared rooms initially followed by single rooms, when the bonds have been built from dormitories with the camaraderie these provide. The potential loners who get as much out of dormitories as the very social.

Nice to hear you are being entertained and having fun, haggismcbaggis. Please stay on and watch this space.

Peteneras
I was being slightly tongue in cheek esp. with some of the alumni comments.
So, just to reiterate, I think Eton is great. Also, apologies if the "brand" comment implied boilerplate boys. That is not what I meant, I meant more the internationally recognised name of Eton.
However, thus far, I personally don't think my DS's school fees have gone down the drain.
Glad to have made your day . I'll leave it there.

OP good luck with your evaluations and best wishes to your DS whatever the outcome.

summerends Actually I agree with you regarding sleeping arrangements, and personally don't really feel strongly about it either way. I just wanted to reply the very negative anti-single room post following my discussion with the boys yesterday.

At one house in a school we looked at all the 3rd formers were put in one big dorm. It looked like hell on earth to me, but I'm happy to admit that if you have spent a year sharing a dorm with 14 other 13 year old boys you could probably cope with pretty much anything!! .

One funny story regarding Churchill, who I believe hated Harrow, and was rumoured to have said 'The best thing about Harrow is that on a clear day you can see Eton'. He sent his son to Eton, where he did not achieve quite as much as was expected of him, and drove all his masters to distraction apparently.

I will stay on Peteneras, thank you ... and learn to spell your name ....

Sorry but don't get your driving force for this. Yes, of course, almost all parents aspire to get the best school and education for their children but it sounds like you already have a good school. Obviously there will be big name schools but pay attention to Ancientbuchanon's point about whether there is clear blue water between what you already have and what you think is on offer because you are possibly chasing something that isn't going to give you what you think. What is it you want for your son that his current school and path won't provide for him? Would it be a better environment for your son to be encouraged in his current school (which you say is every good and where he is doing well) than to be targeted on something completely different which may very well not work out anyway? What is the message to your son from all of this? Even the best schools are not an end in themselves but a means (hopefully) of producing educated and happy young people who can compete for what they want and flourish.

Oh and Grovel , Indrid and Haggis , as well as HG with whom I probably share 90% (the 10% of difference is allowed ) of views thanks for your measured, interesting and amusing responses.

And also Summerends - thank you for tipping me the wink Hope your Ds is doing well.

DJ

^"I have my own theory which I’ve suspected for a very long time - the boy was rejected by Eton! It would not be difficult for me to find out one way or the other once I’ve gathered a few more details.

”BTW from the horse's mouth (i.e. DS who eats like a horse) the food in his house has improved hugely over the last few years.”

That’s good to hear, DJ. Just wondering if I might have had a hand in this change for the better? "^

this is rather troubling, starting with a threat of stalker behaviour and finishing with narcissistic traits.

Thank you DarkingJ my DS is continuing to reap the benefits of W in so many different ways. Like Indrid at E, we too have just been so impressed by the recent meetings with his teachers, their spark and what they contribute to their pupils in and out of the lessons.

Goodness. I might reconsider Winchester or Eton for my DS if all the parents are as, erm, intense as some on this thread...

Bertie,
Please don't
I (inadvisedly) took a pp to be rather more tongue in cheek than they were. My mistake . Please look at all the schools you and Ds like and do not take any of my threads amiss. Do PM if you would like any advice.

agree Bertie, no school is worth being intense about, almost all parents at either E or W will have reasonably balanced views. There is just one poster who takes it a bit OTT.

Well I think someone should explain why there are 37 Old Etonians who have won the VC and only 6 from Winchester.

That's why we chose Eton for our plucky little fellow.

Grovel it is clear, Etonians are such dashing fellows and their uniform draws them to crave a life in uniform once they have excluded being prime minister. Wykehamists are just wimps.

Grovel, Good point.

As and when your DS is the Donkey on the Hill be in no doubt that my Wincoll DS will find a friend to work out the supply line and how to administer it.

"Well I think someone should explain why there are 37 Old Etonians who have won the VC and only 6 from Winchester. "

Crap - you're right. E is better.

summerends, .

I suspect the real reason is that Winchester has always been a genuinely academic school. Eton (37 VCs) and Harrow (20 VCs) have only become seriously selective (academically) in the last 20 years. My guess is that, in the World Wars, Wykehamists were typically posted to staff positions because they were bright.

Grovel,

It's a guess.

Without wishing to lower the tone (and I don't ) if you walk through South Africa Gate/ War Cloister at WinColl and see the number of - frankly kids - from Winchester who were posted as junior officers in the 2 world wars and died at stupidly young ages because they were picked out to be "leaders" - well, it makes me well up. You are right to guess. I am very sorry to take this thread to a different place but boys from Winchester were not given desk jobs. There are huge numbers from given years who were very young and were placed in the most dangerous positions. My DS knows that he and his friends would easily have been picked out in those days to lead the troops as a junior officer and the position they would probably have been put in had one of the highest casualty rates ever. Boys from Winchester were, again, not given desk jobs.

Sorry to to say that because your previous post I found bloody marvellous.

As you were
DJ