How can I encourage my daughters to consider traditionally male dominated careers?

[meinus]

I've been trying to expose my daughters to career areas that are traditionally male dominant. I wanted to share this video because I like how it simply shows a young woman 'as' an engineer and they liked the fun machine setting: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XppH0LJ7c4E
Has anyone seen any other good videos like this that I could show them?

OP, the WISE link posted earlier is good.

Also, have a look at Your Life and girls in physics

According to EngineeringUK statistics, the UK has the lowest proportion of female engineers in the EU, so I disagree with previous posters who believe women are well represented in STEM careers.

Yes, the UK has particularly low female participation in many STEM fields, which tends to kill the argument that it is only about genetics - if so, why would other EU countries have much higher female participation?

Women are very much under-represented and more likely to leave many jobs which use maths/physics e.g.

• statisticians working in industry or in finance
• people working in cryptography, again either for finance or for government organisations
• people working in applied mathematics, computational modelling, as quantitative analysts in finance, for oil companies, industry etc
• people working in operational research.

Women are under-represented in areas such as medical physics but according to the data I have they are less likely to quit working in such areas, perhaps because there are significantly more women. (BTW I track data for women's employment in STEM fields, since I am involved with equality and diversity actions.)

I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, women are smart and should feel the world is their oyster and "go for it!" On the other, my personal experience of working in a very male dominated industry was one of unfairness, frustration and disappointment. After having my first baby, I never went back to work. Yes, I wanted to be with my children and they have benefitted, but I am sure that the fact that work was so miserable and demeaning was a factor in my decision too.

Brave trailblazers will eventually change the world. But, perhaps, at great sacrifice to themselves. I'd be worried that my DDs would just get ground down trying. I want the world to change, but I also want them to be happy and fulfilled. They only get one life.

So, if your DD is truly interested then back her to the hilt, but I wouldn't push her into a snake pit if she is hesitant.

I have had a very negative experience. Not everyone does. But, I know I am not alone. www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-women-tech-20150222-story.html#page=1

Every time there is an additional filter/academic stage/career stage the percentage of women doing STEM subjects decreases. The drop off in STEM is faster than in other sectors. Is this purely a function of discrimination or are there other factors at play?

It is very important not to force an agenda on daughters to right the perceived gender inequalities in this world. The burden is often intolerable.

meinus, my answer to the OP question would be "do a job like that yourself"

Not being flippant, but kids look at what you DO, not what you say.

I also wonder why you would like your daughters to consider these male dominated areas? Are they "better" as dominated by males?

I am sure I would not want my daughters to NOT consider a career as it's male dominated, but not sure I'd make a big deal of it.

Trying tot hunk what y parents did, they never talked much about gender and gender roles. My dad would have loved for me to be a female engineer, as he loves mechanical engineering and wanted me to understand the fascination.

Despite that, I chose arts. Ended up in a male dominated area in the end by getting into IT though. I remember being at conferences with about 99% men. I remember it being an advantage, as people remembered me more easily. Never felt like it was a big deal though as I always grew up with brothers, had male friends throughout life, and never felt that gender was a big issue.

But things have changed, haven't they? At the time, in the 70s and 80s I thought it was the beginning of total equality between men and women, but somehow we landed here, in 2014, with little girls dreaming of being princesses. Weird really, never saw that coming!

But to answer your question: lead by example, and don't make a big deal about gender.

Rather ironically, send your daughters to a girls only independent school.Dd and her friends are not frightened of these male dominated careers and believe they can succeed in anything.Whether the actual reality matches their aspirations is another thing entirely.

Be excited about science and maths yourself does help I think.

I was good at stem but ditched them at as/a level and all I can say is that I'd convinced myself Bs weren't good enough. Later I married DH and discovered that he and his colleagues were not straight A students! It seems a total myth that you have to be an A* student to stand a chance of any kind of decent course or job.

Also appeal to their practicality? This country is crying for skilled workers in most stem areas, so if they go into that area they are unlikely to have much worry over unemployment and are likely to earn better than average salaries.

On a more practical level see if they fancy a stemettes day... www.stemettes.org

My DD's, 15 & 18 are the only girls in Statistics, Computer Science, Physics and Maths A-level Classes, (18 year old)

DD18 is now only 1 of 2 girls on her Uni course as well!

My husband is an engineer, they have attended all workshops offered at school, we have taken them and our 2 sons to external science fairs, (Big Bang Fair being one of the better ones), but equally they have attended other workshops as well, they are both very interested in reading and psychology as well.

You can't push people into things, it won't work out in the long run.

My girls aren't bothered that they are the only girls, they find it quite funny!

I'm not sure I agree with that canny. My all girls private school was very set up for medicine and pure research careers but useless at any other kind of STEM! Perhaps they have realised that in the 10 years since, but not from what I've heard.

My niece is studying a STEM subject.
She has been offered scholarships, bursaries and now a sponsorship for her entire course.
Thousands off tuition fees, a guaranteed summer job, pocket money during term time and a guaranteed job when she graduates.

Firms seems to be falling over themselves to sponsor women undergrads at the moment...highly paid career at the end of studying - because there are so few STEM subject graduates all the current undergrads are really being wooed by companies looking to get bright people into their firms.

I'd encourage any child into STEM if they have the ability as firms will fall over themselves to employ you!

Single sex school best option if this is what you want to achieve. No subjects or extracurricular stuff (debating societies etc) 'taken over' by boys. I intend to go down that route for DD when the time comes. Not to push her into STEM subjects, but to make sure she doesn't subconsciously rule them out because they 'feel' more suitable for boys. Good for you to trying to counteract all the ghastly pinkification society throws at our daughters.

A friend's daughter was asked at an engineering interview 'Why do you want to do this? Do you help your dad fix the car at home?'

She said (truthfully) no, she didn't.

She should have said (equally truthfully but was too flustered!) that she and her mum fixed the car.

Little assumptions add up, over time.

This is a good article with some useful links.

I told my DCs (all of them) that I would not pay for a degree in English Lit, MFL, History, or any other subject that did not involve a large dollop of maths or science. This focused their minds very effectively. My motivation is purely practical. They all have or will have loans to repay upon graduation, and degrees with a maths component tend to pay better. I have completely ignored the idea that these areas are male dominated. It doesn't come up in our conversations.

So far one DD has an economics degree and a great job, DS will graduate this year with a degree in biology and one DD is in the pipeline with an econ degree with a different focus from the older sister's. I had to campaign really hard to get this particular DD to forget about history as a viable degree option. Fourth DC is looking at computer science or engineering, or some other form of engineering, physics or statistics. She also likes econ. Fifth DC likes the idea of OT or SLT which is fine by me.

My DDs all like the hair/makeup/nails/fashion scene and I have never pooh poohed any of that. I have no problem with pink stuff. My DDs don't have to choose between looking good (as they see it) or being feminine (again, as they interpret that) and dong well in school. They don't have a uniform and the school is as mixed as it could be from all angles. I have encouraged and supported them in any sports they cared to join.

send your daughters to a girls only independent school.
Or a girls' state school. Mine is at one, and is planning on electronic engineering. Totally her choice. I guess she got some exposure to it via school lessons but also they're very good at encouraging participation in Crest awards, Go4Set, attending Big Bang events and so forth.

It may help that she has me as an example of a woman comfortably in a STEM job (a rare one which has turned out to be family friendly). If your children (daughters and sons!) are aware of real, normal women in 'traditionally male' roles, that must help normalise their view.

The idea that STEM is 'knee deep' in women is sadly about right. Way less than 'waist-deep' (ie parity) in many areas (except some biosciences and maybe medicine), and mostly at the lower levels.

Btw, OP, I don't think I've come across a video I liked as much as the one you linked to. Because it wasn't patronising - the content was gender-neutral 'we need engineers' and just happened to be presented by a normal-looking young woman. The name 'Bechedel' on it rather suggests that this was done with intent, but to my mind a lot better than some of the cringe-making efforts trying to hard to make STEM 'cool for girls' I've seen in the past.

I've worked in a family-friendly STEM field since uni (medical physics) and it's pretty equal as far as opportunities and treatment by peers go. If anyone wants to show physics and engineering and computing in a very positive, caring light to any of their children, ask to visit a big hospital, preferably one with a cancer treatment department.

With the way population age demographics are going and cancer rates rising accordingly, we'll have a lot more need for the complex imaging, treatment planning and radiation therapy that such departments provide. I am always happy to show interested people round my hospital!

(Ironically I have a son not a daughter, but he wants to be an engineer so that's ok! )

moonbells I work in a STEM field too (maths related), and I agree it's equal in terms of opportunity and treatment by peers. The problem is getting girls to do the subjects! The proportion of women studying engineering at university in the UK is around 1 in 7.

This is another good link.

While STEM is one of the obvious areas which tend to be male-dominated, there are of course many others. One obvious one with an upcoming election is politics. Perhaps making sure that our kids see some of the too-few women in action - Nicola Sturgeon (whatever one thinks of her politics) for instance.

It's a shame the UK system is set up in such a way that students have to choose at an early age what subjects they will essentially carry forward into university. GCSE stage is really too young to have to choose and without excellent guidance I feel many female students are lost to STEM options. Where we are, DD3 has to do another year of history, English, mfl, as well as probably two science subjects, and maths. Her options will remain open until she gets acceptance letters from universities, and even after that as it is possible to transfer in many places after a first year of arts and sciences into engineering if she is still interested.

DH was looking up pictures of women scientists last night.
Interestingly he found that several of the ones of Marie Curie working alone were in fact photo-shopped from an image of her working with her husband.

Its so easy to edit stuff on the interweb that provenance of information is really important.

National Science week starts on Friday - lots of events going on from which to draw ideas

I told my DCs (all of them) that I would not pay for a degree in English Lit, MFL, History, or any other subject that did not involve a large dollop of maths or science.

I think this is a horrible thing to do. Not everyone wants to do a maths and science degree. I went to an all girls school in the 90s and there was a massive 'girls can do anything' push with a big focus on the maths and sciences. I wasn't interested. I'd wanted to be a teacher from grade one. I never once wavered from that. But it was almost considered a traitor to women because I didn't want a career in maths and science. Even when I went to my high school reunion, I even got the comment 'Oh, so you never did do anything in science, what a shame'. Err no, but I got a PhD in Education, but I guess that's not important.

Just because someone doesn't want to pursue a particular path that society and their parents expect, doesn't make that a bad thing. We all have our own strengths and interests, and I will be encouraging my child to pursue that. As long as they can demonstrate that they can make a viable career out of whatever it is, then that's what I'll support. It takes all types to make a world, and we still need those people who want to do degrees in 'English Lit, MFL, History' and plenty of other subjects.

encourage them to take science options at school, and I mean hard sciences, inc physics and maths not just biology. Then support them through a science subject degree.

Or- encourage them in Tech, DT , creative subjects and support them through an apprenticeship or a succession of low paid entry level jobs.

DH and I both work in male dominated areas. Pretty much Everyone he works with went down the first route. Pretty much every one I work with , the second.