University of London - is there a "heirarchy" between the various Colleges?

[homebythesea]

Are some of the London University Colleges looked at more favourably than others? Specifically eg Birkbeck v Kings v Royal Holloway. Social sciences if that makes any difference

Actually scrub Birkbeck - just seen its an evening school

not suitable as we want to get the boy out of the house

You'd have to look at specific courses but generally KCL is higher ranked than Royal Holloway. UCL is better than both, an unbiased UCL graduate writes.

Birkbeck has a very good reputation indeed in many areas and is brilliant at supporting students who might be round pegs in square holes elsewhere (e.g. my daughter who is in her final year there now). Most of the students are mature in years and the vast majority are part-time.

one person I did post grad with applied for u if london and arrived from her NW town very excited to Royal Holloway. Which is not really London, and not what she was expecting at all. Dropped out, reapplied to UCL. Read the prospectus carefully!!

Thanks for quick replies! Yes I know the geography of some colleges is a bit like "London" Luton airport!! There are courses of potential interest (and achievable-ish) at Holloway and KCL and I was thinking in terms of future employers' view. He's not going to be a straight A student and the aim is to get him to the best establishment he can achieve (obv doing a course of interest!)

UCL is the stuff of dreams and/or miracles Mimsy

Ultimately, you leave with a University of London degree, and no employer would look down on that.

(QMUL alumnus here!)

King's is better than UCL.

That is the only important thing to know.

What sort of college has a mummified head as its mascot, anyway?

Oh dear I fear I have unearthed some long held student rivalries here

UCL and Imperial are ranked globally much higher than all of those in the OP post, but King's is the highest of those that were. Some employers do care which one you went to and it's not uncommon for some of them to only look at Oxbridge and those two recruiting. I do not think it makes sense but I have seen it in practice. You might want to look at subject specific rankings.

homebythesea A rivalry so intense that their Varsity match is banned from Twickenham, a feat not even achieved by Army v Navy......

TheFirst What sort of college steals the mummified Head?

Yes in general KCL would be seen as top of the rest you mention, and certainly in the centre of things but it really is very subject specific, and within that you also have to look at what the courses offer. One of DDs friends is a classicist with A*AA so could have gone almost anywhere but went for Royal Holloway because the course was what she wanted, it also has the most stunning campus, and though in the self styled "Historic royal town of Egham" (60s shopping centres are now historic?) only 30 mins on a fast train from the clubbing of London. They preload on the train......

Not sure which Social Science but subject tables are here. www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings

For Sociology looks like it is LSE, Goldsmiths, Birkbeck, City, Royal Holloway, actually not that far ahead of Roehampton, Westminster and Kingston and can't see KCL on there, tables aren't everything though.......

I could be wrong but I don't think KCL does sociology unless it calls it something different. Don't think UCL does it either.

TheFirst What sort of college steals the mummified Head?

Yes indeed, PoisonwoodLife, yes indeed. They're a depraved lot down by the river.

seaoflove, actually several member colleges of the University of London now award their own degrees. KCL and UCL do. Imperial does and for good measure has also left the university. All very confusing!

I'm out of touch then. I knew Imperial had left entirely, but didn't know about KCL and UCL.

This is all so useful! We're not far away from Egham so that might be a hard sell anyway and too near for laundry purposes

He really wants to be in Central London but the academic requirements of most of the various places mentioned are against him. KCL for the course he wants to do is aspirational. I'm realising now that for the less than stellar student it's going to be hard.

I know it should be course driven but we really think that most employers will be swayed by the institution- so that even if the very best course in Underwater Knitting is in, say, Bolton Uni, a candidate with a similar (but less well taught) course at Bristol would prevail because that is perceived to be a more prestigious establishment. The Holy Grail is of course the right mix if both

It's not sociology btw but thanks for looking it up Poison!

Just mentioned Sociology to give an indication.

At the end of the day each student will have their own hierarchy of needs, be it employment prospects, research rankings, course, facilities, city or lack of it, drinking culture, clubbing possibilities, rugby team Plenty of info out there to research it all. The Student Room is a good source of info for students from students online as well. Hopefully after weighing up all the factors that matter to them then they do find the right mix.

My DD most recently to apply was most swayed by research rankings, of course an employer is unlikely to know that her uni is top for her subject, and she could have chosen a bigger "name" but she felt that the choice and number of modules offered as a result of the research strength were going to give her the chance of more challenge and interest, and she would do better there. And so far she is absolutely loving the intellectual challenge and the bars and clubs .

And be careful, it really should be "he really thinks", any suggestion that the decision is anything other than his to make, with your advice if asked for, but given in the spirit of being happy for it to be rejected, will be shot down in flames by the admissions tutors on the Higher Education thread. They are the ones who have to pick up the pieces when students do what their parents want them to and then discover it is not what they wanted. They would say that your DC is an adult and this is a chance for them to develop adult skills in making decisions for themselves even if it is to study knitting at Bolton, though we did say that our ability to support the process financially might be compromised by similar choices, and I got flamed on the Higher Ed thread for even that

home I would also add that uni admissions are much more a buyer's market than in the past, for a variety of factors candidates are landing offers at aspirational choices, and more likely to find themselves accepted even if they don't achieve offers. Some very competitive courses are exceptions but Social Sciences, unless you include Psychology which they did at my uni in Victorian times according to my DDs that is unlikely to be the case. As in the past always good to go for 1 or 2 aspirational, 1 or 2 realistic and 1 or 2 back up but don't give up on the aspirational ones as those quoted offers don't necessarily translate into the grades achieved by those who end up on the courses.

Poison your comments are really helpful thank you and also reassuring.

I know it has to be his decision but at this early stage it's me that has the time to do an initial trawl (his school day is 0830-1730, plus Saturday school,plus 2 hrs prep at least a night- realistically it's not going to happen for him). Plus we as parents are looking at it from the employers point of view which is a factor to take into account given one of the main points of university is to gain some sort of advantage in the working world (or why bother racking up the debt?). The subject matter is entirely out of our ken (both lawyers, knew we wanted to do law from the outset both Agrade students boast so a way easier decision making process!) so he will need to read all the stuff and decide on which course appeals and where he might live for a few years, within the limitations of the predicted grades

Oh and "we" discovered today that the KCL course requires a B in a GCSE in which he got a C so that's in the bin....

Have you looked at SOAS at all, a very well respected university.

homebythesea, if by any chance it's Psychology, KCL is offering Psychology as a BSc subject for the first time in 2015. Students will be based at Guy's which is central (although south of the river) but I note from the prospectus that some of the teaching will be at the IOP, which is in Camberwell (not central - 2 or 3 miles south of Guy's).

Being in at the start of a subject could be very exciting and I'm sure they will get a lot of attention because the team will be so keen to get off to a good start. However, there are bound to be teething problems, so he'd have to bear that in mind.

Also, being in an early cohort might (I'm guessing here) mean that some students would get in with slightly lower grades while the programme beds down. They will be desperate to hit their recruitment targets (as long as they are confident that the students they recruit will go on to do well).

Also, if it is Psychology, if he's thinking of trying to pursue a career in Psychology the prestige of the university is not as important, as the absolutely key thing is to make sure that the first degree is accredited by the British Psychological Society. Most of them are but you sometimes have to be careful about module choice.

Of course, if he's not looking it as a vocational degree, that is less important.

However - to finish this long rambling post - I assume he got a C in either Maths or English. Were there any mitigating circumstances? If it's Maths that would be a concern for Psychology as there will be some stats to get to grips with. If it's English that would also be a problem as there is a fair amount of essay writing to do in Psychology. He would do well to think long and hard about whether this is the subject for him (if it is Psychology).

[Disclaimer: I'm not a Psychology graduate, but I used to have a lot to do with Psychology graduates in a recent previous job so picked all this stuff up.]

Anyway, good luck!

Waves to seaof although it was QMC / QMW in my day....

The general rule is the college that you attend is the best, UCL has a good bar if you are in town, have a couple of mates at Royal Halloway in case you have an early / late flight out of Heathrow. Kings and Imperial.... odd unless it is your college.

I have an undergrad degree from Royal Holloway and a Master's and a PhD from UCL.

If he decides to pursue a career in the same field as his area of study then I would advise going wherever they offer the best course. Any employer in the same field will be aware of the nuances between the courses which will probably outweigh any institutional 'kudos'.

Mimsy it was Eng Lit C (Eng Lang was a B). It's probably worth a call to see what they mean by "English" in this context. No mitigating factor other than he was always pretty crap at Lit!!

This whole thing has taught me it's so important to read the small print!

Guitar girl he has no idea as to career so we are going for interesting/more likely to do well in courses to buy some time!

what employer will only look at candidate cvs from Oxford, Cambridge, UCL and Imperial? I just don't believe it. Even if true, wouldnt LSE, Bristol, Durham etc also be on that list. I refuse to believe it until someone shows me a comany memo that says only look at candidates from 4 British universities.

the other thing worth remembering is that once you've done your first couple of graduate jobs people care about your recent experience much more than where you sent to university.