University of London - is there a "heirarchy" between the various Colleges?

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Are some of the London University Colleges looked at more favourably than others? Specifically eg Birkbeck v Kings v Royal Holloway. Social sciences if that makes any difference

Always best to check with Admissions directly, but it would amaze me if Eng Lang wasn't accepted!

I'm always a bit dubious about these employers who only recruit from a handful of universities. I assume there may be some very blinkered City firms which do this, but I bet even then it's only for a handful of graduate entry level jobs in their main line of business. I doubt very much if they take that line for all the back office jobs, marketing, HR, IT etc etc.

Forago- there is definitely a hierarchy and still a prejudice against the ex-Polys that us in our 40's will still look at as inferior. Unfair? Probably. But it does happen and when you have masses of applicants it's an easy way to slim down the "possibles" pile. No-one has said it's only 4 Unis! My issue for my boy is to try and get him as far up that pecking order as possible given he is not going to be a straight A student!

Mimsy- yes seeing if from our City experience!

It not if

actually rougedad said there were organisations that only look at Oxbridge UCL and Imperial. It is that I was expressing doubt about. I have absolutely no doubt that lots of companies select from Edinburgh, Bath, Bristol, Durham, London Unis etc and not the less prestigious ones - that is an entirely different thing. But its not only 4 universities. I work in the City and have worked in the airline industry and the choice is far wider than that, even for the prestigious grad scheme jobs.

I work for an organisation that likes to think it recruits only 'the very best'. Even they don't just look at that narrow a range! (Although my colleague with a KCL masters was once asked how she'd managed to get a job there without a 'real degree'.

But it can be surprising which universities have good reputations in individual subjects. I'd keep up the research. Would he be interested in cities other than London?

Don't scrub Birkbeck!

Birkbeck offers full time degrees that are taught in the evening. That's great for people in their late teens who often are absolutely rubbish in the morning. Lots of students have day-time part-time jobs or internships that give them a head start in their careers. And it is academically excellent, world leading in some subjects. It recently came out top in the country for research in Psychology, for instance. And Birkbeck students' graduate salary tops that of any other university.

Niminy - I have read that about Birkbeck's graduate salary on marketing posters on the tube and have always thought that is very misleading. Birkbeck, because of its emphasis on part-time and evening study will have a higher proportion of older students, not straight from A-levels, some of whom will be bringing with them years of professional experience and working in London which tends to carry higher salaries anyway. It stands to reason that those people will be able to command a higher 'graduate' salary than your average 21 year old graduate whose work experience is limited. It's the marketing department capitalising on their student demographic.

That's partly true, guitargirl, but only partly. I've taught at Birkbeck (full disclosure here) for a long time, and I have seen so many students change jobs, get promoted, start new careers, because of their studies. I've known people in well paid jobs already, for sure -- but not so many as I have people for whom doing a degree at Birkbeck has really changed their prospects.

Birkbeck will never be like the great graduate factories of UCL or Kings or Oxbridge. It's small and different and more varied. It'll suit people who don't want to be like the rest of the herd.

That's my daughter, then! She's 22 and usually by far the youngest in her classes. Many of her fellow students are a lot older than my husband and me. She is very comfortable with this. She has Asperger's and I always thought she would have struggled with typical student behaviour at an ordinary university as she simply can't see the point of it. She loves her studies and works very hard. This appears to be normal at Birkbeck, which is great.

Mimsy

Birkbeck students do work very hard, it's true -- in my experience a lot harder than 18 year old students at daytime universities. They contribute more to classes, too. I never have to struggle to get people to talk, as I used to when I worked at a very well respected university (RG - though I hate that term, it means absolutely nothing in terms of quality as it is simply a trade association).

"Blinkered city firms" is probably about right for the firms I was thinking about!

home I have heard it from the horses mouth that eg Linklaters only consider Oxbridge, UCL/the best London Unis, Durham, Bristol, five in total, can't remember the other one, but pretty random in the context of other unis, eg no St Andrews? And that was in the context of the partner and I having been elsewhere. I think it is quite common to nurse those attitudes in Law firms especially which may colour your perspective?

Less so in City banks etc (which may colour my perspective ) these days who are very much out for the best. My DD1s cohort mostly graduated in 2013 or 14 and I think some of the Oxbridge ones are a little perplexed that graduates from places like Southampton are snapping up plum jobs. It really is up to your son to build up the CV and then show what he can do in the endless rounds of psychometric testing, telephone interviews etc that are the norm these days, or just be in the right place. Any decent graduate recruiters are relying on these to find candidates with the qualities they are looking for rather than them having gone to a "name". One of my DDs friends really has landed the dream job and some of the alpha girls have actually asked her for advice on their CVs, the thing is I could tell them exactly why she got the job, it is because she has such wonderful interpersonal skills, a lovely personality and a great sense of humour, anyone would want to work with her as opposed to their sense of entitlement however even they seem now to have landed good jobs in marketing etc. and there is a definite trend in marketing (again my perspective ) to be demanding graduates from vocational courses which actually favours ex polys. I disagree, and prefer graduates from academic courses, you can give them the job related skills but the trend is there......

But one thing that is not up for debate is that you need a 2.1 these days, so going somewhere where he is able to achieve that is essential.

Birkbeck's USP sounds great but I think for the average school leaver looking for the student "experience" it probably isn't the thing

Yes non London places definitely in the mix - my initial enquiry was just to establish between the possibles in the Smoke! We have ended up with quite an interesting discussion- thank you!

You need to think of the UoL colleges as entirely separate universities, as they virtually are these days. And it really does depend on the course. For social sciences you should be looking at LSE, King's, UCL, SOAS and Goldsmith's. But check what each offers; e.g. the Institute of Psychiatry at King's is unbeatable, but they offer neither anthropology nor sociology as stand alone degrees.

I have heard there are between 16,000 and 22,000+ (or maybe even more) universities/higher education institutions in the world. That’s a lot of universities in anybody’s language. In my books therefore, if you come from the first 1000 or . . . (okay) maybe 500 top universities, you’re really excellent!

Unfortunately, there are still people and employers out there who’d only consider Oxbridge, people I honestly think have some serious psychological problems who desperately need urgent professional help given this day and age!

”Although my colleague with a KCL masters was once asked how she'd managed to get a job there without a 'real degree'.”

This is precisely the sort of people I referred to above who desperately needs urgent professional help if they think a KCL Masters degree isn’t a ‘real degree’. Sorry, how many tens of thousands of universities are there in the world again? And where does KCL come in the world rankings?

Never mind about Bristol, Birmingham, Durham or St. Andrews, KCL is not in the first 1000, nor the first 500. Nor is KCL even in the first 50!

No, for that matter not even in the first 20 top university in the world . . . it’s BETTER than that!

Oh, as you can see from the table, Oxbridge is not the be-all and the end-all! London, not Oxbridge, is the powerhouse of British universities!

Although that to be fair is weighted towards the reputation with academics rather than employers but point made...... and who knows OPs son may want to be an academic or in a field where academic rigour is the valued quality......

Just came on here to second PiratePanda comments above. UoL is not a collection of colleges in the sense that Oxford or Cambridge are. Many of the colleges (if not most) award their own degrees. They are separate institutions united under a federation - see www.london.ac.uk/aboutus.html.

To actually answer the OP's question: unfortunately there is a hierarchy, though other than loonies who only look at the top two or three, many more employers will tend to the older universities, but, an important caveat, there will be certain subjects where this doesn't apply and good ex-polys such as Oxford Brookes, will be well regarded for specific (especially vocational) subjects.

PiratePanda I'm afraid all but one (and that's open for debate- see above) of those institutions are unattainable academically. I know they are not like Oxbridge colleges, but all do have the label of University of London. My initial question was about the perceived pecking order between them and I think you have it right!

PoisonWoodlife- on results thus far you would not put my boy in the "academic rigour" drawer which is what makes this Uni search harder IMHO - if you are nailed on for your A's and A*'s then you have lovely dilemmas between the top institutions. If you are more of the AAB/ABB level the choices are more limited at the "better" places so we have to be a bit more canny. I still believe that many employers will look at the institution over the subject matter (unless it is vocational obvs) which is why as I have said we want to get him into the best perceived place that he can.

SOAS and Goldsmiths should be achievable with AAB, and probably ABB!

and those few loons who think like that will be retired/dead before he finishes his degree, so he probably only need to worry about doing the right course for him at one of the many good universities available to him.

Actually with ABB which is the threshold beyond which universities are now allowed to recruit as many students as they wish, one of the reasons that it has become a buyers market, you would not only find that universities / courses that pretend cling to advise 3 As are required might be making offers but you will find that if all else fails you would be able to shop around in Clearing. I know of one student who missed her 3 A offer elsewhere with ABB, and is now at SOAS doing Anthropology. She was interviewed though. My DD had a 3 A offer from Sussex, only to receive a letter not long after saying they were reducing it to ABB and if she didn't get that then they might take her anyway.... It was one of her back ups but a subject they are very highly ranked for.

If your DS is interested in studying Social Sciences in the context of area studies SOAS actually have a lot of employers shopping there for the expertise in their Middle Eastern / Asian markets for which bar Oxbridge it is indisputably the best, the relevant Oxbridge tutors will tell you that, partly because they probably studied at SOAS, and the pool of candidates is much reduced by the fact the average SOAS student is an anti capitalist hippy not really interested in that sort of career I have always thought it not for those seeking a typical university experience but I am being proved wrong on that one.

Another possibility if interested in studying Social Sciences in the context of area studies is SEES at UCL, a bit of a side door with a lower bar. I doubt many of their graduates admits they studied History etc in the SEES rather than UCL

No number control anymore!

Forago those "loons" who are making recruitment decisions in major firms are contemporaries in their forties!