How many teachers have been attacked / threatened by students?

[feelingunsupported]

I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few days in light of the sentencing for the murder of Mrs Maguire. I've namechanged for obvious reasons but am a regular - Reasties xmas threads mainly

In my small school this year so far

• teacher's arm jammed in a door. Student made to write a note of apology

-male staff member had to deflect a punch from student. Staff member interviewed by manager for use of force. No comeback on student -student threatened to nut a teacher. Approached teacher looking like he was going to do it. Student suspended for 2 days then back into class -teachers told to fuck off / called cunts etc regularly

Work in learning resource centre myself. Pretty decent school but same abuse and resistance to rules daily. I'm pretty tough but what irritates me is senior managers who "deal" with the bad behaviour who are too naive to see the fake "oh sorry miss". parents do not help. Clearly too many do not reinforce good manners. I continue my crusade for manners and adherence to rules simply because I look around and wonder what the decent quiet rule abiding pupils must make of the idiots who CANNOT simply do rules. School in the paper today sent home loads of pupils for infringement of uniform rules. GOOD. what are parents thinking letting girls have gel nails done, multiple piercings etc etc when they know this flouts the rules. Rules are their in schools to help teach discipline. I'm verbally abused daily and have had awful things said about me on social networking, not because I'm horrible simply because I have tried to enforce the rules the senior team say are what make our school stand out. It would be easier to turn a blind eye.

I can't believe how many people have posted. I was expecting to get shouted down by the 'but you get lots of holidays not in FE we don't brigade'

Wrt other workers - yes, I know others are subjected too but most other employers will ban abusive people. The 17 (almost 18) year old who pinned me against the wall was suspended 4 times last year and never quite gets to exclusion.

I've had one incident in my 14 years of teaching, a yr 11 boy, we suspect who was high, threatened to rape and kill me. He had been brought back into my class after he had run off trying to find and hurt a girl who had a LSA in the class, brought back by the acting head, who knew I was an NQT with an skanky class and the kid was kicking off, any sane senior teacher would have kept him out for the rest of the lesson. He got a 3 day suspension. After his reintegration interview the deputy head came up to me and said 'oh I didn't realise what he said was quite so bad' so they hadn't read my statement until afterwards!!!!!

Have chosen my schools better since then!

I've been told 'I'm going to deck you'- student sent out for two minutes then brought back in. Had a door slammed in to me. Was told it was an accident.
Been told to fuck off, fuck off you cunt, fuck yourself etc more times than I'd like. Been squared up to by large sixteen year old boys.
The news this week made me realise on Tuesday, when I was told to fuck off, that I didn't feel very safe in my classroom.

Had an almost ready to leave 6th former who tried to enlist security evening staff to help him "get the bitch" as in me with view to making me leave. He posted on social networking all the school knew including my own son. I was simply told to take the day off when they thought he "might take action". My crime? I'd questioned why he was skiving a scheduled lesson. Bad news for him is he messed up his year and is having to redo it. I tough out seeing him daily but I'm still worried. You do become used to it.

Not happened in our school for a while but I and I think all members of my staff have been assaulted by a child in the past. I work in a primary setting so we're talking young kids. I've been hit, kicked and had furniture thrown at me. All the children had specific issues.

People who trot out the 'lots of holidays' line are fools. My best mate's a teacher, my MIL is a former teacher - the hours worked by teachers are obscene.

I'm an NHS employee myself and I would say we get far more support with assaults and are strongly encouraged to report more. Assaults in the NHS are often by patients not in possession of all of their faculties for various reasons (drugs, alcohol, delirium etc) so they can be easy to play down' rightly or wrongly. If we're talking about a sober 13-18 year old, that's a whole different ballpark. If they did the same thing out in the street, they'd be slapped with an ASBO.

I'm appalled at the abuse and violence on this thread, and don't defend it at all, and I definitely think teachers should be able to report to the police, a big change is needed and this covering up has to stop.

BUT...

I do think there is (and has been for ages, since I was at school) a problem in UK schools with nitpicky, stupid rules and an "us and them" attitude to kids, which fosters an "us and them" attitude to teachers. Obviously not all schools/teachers but the general culture. (I had some fantastic individual teachers who changed my life so I am not slagging off teachers.)

Uniform is a classic example - I was a very well-behaved, hardworking, A-grade teenager, but being told off for minor uniform infringements or not sticking to bloody stupid rules about which door you could use instead of walking a mile round the other way, made me really disrespect the school and many of the teachers. A really clever, bright boy in the 6th form was constantly harassed for having long dyed hair. FFS who cares if he is doing well and a nice person? I was bright enough to see that uniform is actually irrelevant and I would have preferred them to focus on dealing with disruptive behaviour and violence in the worst kids and give the rest of us a break.

I actually left at 16 because I couldn't stand being treated like a baby, and continued my education elsewhere.

That does NOT excuse behaving badly (and I didn't and nor would I stand for my DC behaving badly at school). But I do think if schools were less about pointless rules and obedience, and more about mutual respect and learning, a different culture might develop. I was really cross when I saw that news item about excluding kids over uniform. Unless that HT has dealt with the things that really matter (which seems unlikely going by this thread) then uniform is a red herring and that action will just piss people off.

I went on a german school exchange as a teenager and it was so different. No uniform, no ridiculous, personality-crushing hair rules (I am OK with sensible rules like tying long hair up, as long as a good reason is given), no out-of-bounds areas at break, kids milling around happily indoors, socialising or reading/doing homework as they chose, or playing sport if they chose. Kids on first-name terms with teachers and generally treated as if they had some maturity to start with. There was bad behaviour among our UK group and the german teens were just baffled - they saw no need for it.

I'm surprised that more isn't made of violence in schools and towards teachers. If a pupil will hurt a teacher, then they are very likely to hurt other pupils. If you take the basic humanity of wanting teachers protected out of the equation, parents should still be up in arms at the risk to their own children from violent pupils.

I would really like to know about a school's attitude to abuse towards teachers before I send my DD there as I see it as a clear indication of the risks to my DD. And who wants their child taught in a climate of fear?

The most recent school I taught at seemed to permanently exclude pupils who injured teachers. It was normally at the end of years of disruptive behaviour, but it was a clear line that could not be crossed. Schools like that do exist and I would prefer that my DD attended a school with that sort of approach.

Captainjane - intersecting dh went to visit a German school a few times in his exchange trip when at schools. He says it was depressing. Basically if you wanted to learn you did but those who didn't just ignored the teachers, did what they want and there was no respect at all. Said it made him feel very grateful for his English schooling - which was just at your average comp.

Also it's important to remember that teachers don't make the rules. SMT and governors do, then teachers are expected to uphold the imposed rules. So the teachers are on the firing line and get the brunt.

Of course there are always going to be some teachers who take it too far, too serious - teachers are human. Like in every profession you get the odd rogue ones.

I'm sorry but I must pick up on one point.

I see the "personality crushing" type thing on MN a few times. Anyone who has ever spent any time in any school knows that you can have any number of uniform and hair rules in a school and you will still keep individual personalities! Ime teenagers and children's personalities are really not stifled by being asked not to have unnaturally coloured dyed hair or not wear jeans to school.

Yes I guess it may have changed now or maybe it was an unusually open and friendly school.

And I totally agree about the teachers not making these decisions - some teachers I know hate having to constantly nag at kids about uniform etc.

In my DC school (primary) we have a lovely head and just one teacher (out of 20+) who has that shouty sergeant major, uniform nit-picking, rule-bashing thing going on. He's not typical of the school but when I see him in action, those feelings of disrespect I felt at school come flooding back.

I don't mean that they successfully do crush personalities, just that it feels like that's the plan. It always seemed so stupid to me to make someone's life a misery over their hair, even though they were academically brilliant, kind, wouldn't hurt a fly and never caused a jot of trouble. Why?

Ime teenagers and children's personalities are really not stifled by being asked not to have unnaturally coloured dyed hair or not wear jeans to school.

OK, but then why do it anyway? Why have these rules that don't have good reasons behind them? As a teenager, I could respect a rule with a reason, like don't hit people, or don't push on the stairs. But being "in trouble" for having the wrong length skirt when I was busting a gut to get straight As - it made me really resentful and angry, and I was one of the good ones.

I work in a Reception class and have been attacked twice in the last term

I'm not sure why we are discussing the rules of school uniform (although your points are fair ones)- we were talking about students threatening or attacking teachers. So surely these two topics are not related, unless the implication is that teachers deserve the treatment that they get?

I've always thought that a uniform provides an outlet for rebellion without it being particularly disruptive or damaging.

Why assume that uniform rules don't have good reasons behind them?

It's about having high standards and expectations. It's really not that hard to wear the correct uniform. It's also about asserting authority. Sweating the little stuff means the bigger stuff doesn't become a problem.

I don't personally get all shouty about uniform, but if you stand at the door of your classroom and don't allow kids in until their shirts are tucked in and their ties are tied appropriately, you are setting your stall out for standards in your classroom. You are also marking it as your classroom where you are in charge.

Yes it is a bit of a tangent and I apologise for that.

However I have been supportive of teachers on this thread and at no point have I suggested or said they deserve what they get. Read my posts.

I am talking about what I see as a combative culture in UK education, and one of the things that I think reinforces that is the importance placed on arbitrary rules which are not there for a good, relevant reason (by which I mean a reason such as preventing injury or aiding learning). Uniform is one example of that. Teachers are constantly required to reinforce rules that make no sense, that students quite reasonably see as stupid. I don't think that causes violence. But I think it does make kids disrespect teachers and school rules, in a general sense.

I think uniform rules-certainly at the schools I went to-were just as strict as they are now. Teachers told you to tuck your shirt in and you did it without thinking they were being petty.

There wasn't any violence though and teachers were very respected, even slightly feared!

I don't think the two are at all linked.

Sweating the little stuff means the bigger stuff doesn't become a problem.

Well, looking at this thread, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I know uniform makes people feel strongly on both sides. It's not uniform specifically that I dislike, it's arbitrary rules, of which it is one example. The reason I brought it up was I remember my own deep feelings of anger and disrespect when these rules were imposed on me.

I'll drop it now, sorry. I stress again that I am not blaming teachers.

I can totally believe that LaQueen! But the teachers weren't having to be constantly on your case about it is the difference.

I've been threatened several times at my school, as has DH. It's all just seen as part of the job by management though. Punishments are never strict enough. Chairs being thrown about, swearing, kicking, punching are all regular occurrences.