How many teachers have been attacked / threatened by students?

[feelingunsupported]

I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few days in light of the sentencing for the murder of Mrs Maguire. I've namechanged for obvious reasons but am a regular - Reasties xmas threads mainly

In my small school this year so far

• teacher's arm jammed in a door. Student made to write a note of apology

-male staff member had to deflect a punch from student. Staff member interviewed by manager for use of force. No comeback on student -student threatened to nut a teacher. Approached teacher looking like he was going to do it. Student suspended for 2 days then back into class -teachers told to fuck off / called cunts etc regularly

I'm starting to see it might have been just me and my attitude problem! (entirely possible)

My students don't wear uniform. Some of them still attack staff

Why can we not have a zero tolerance to violence as we do in the nhs?

Anyone physically hurting ( or seriously threatening such that the police will give a crime number) is treated in a zero tolerance unit hereabouts in primary care.

It can't be that different to set up a zero tolerance unit for schools? - exclusion from school for most kids means a day at home on the Xbox eating pizza- the zero tolerance unit could start to remedy the fact that kids that are violent need to sort anger issues out and actually start to remedy the fact that a lot of them, especially at ks3 are very behind at school, and we might start winning ?

It'd cost of course but if we could change these kids so violence isn't the only strategy they have to deal with issues, and they can say read and write on leaving , we'd really be winning.

And actually, as a parent of " good" kids I don't mind if my kids are taught in bigger classes Etc, as, without these kidding class the well behaved ones don't struggle to learn!

Funding is the key really, until that's sorted very little will change. Is happily have larger class sizes if that sort of scheme was implemented so staff felt safe

If I had a bigger class, I would just drown under paperwork :(

If I had a bigger class I wouldn't be able to fit enough desks in my classroom and some kids would have to hang out the windows.

Re NHS workers and so on being assaulted - it's probably the kids who assault teachers at school who go on to attack other public sector workers. Dealing properly with violence in schools might improve conditions for everyone.

I'm confused about the personal abuse you describe lq: didn't you recently claim you stopped any misbehaviour when you worked in schools with your Death Stare?

It is a reason why we need up to the worst behaved 20 percent of kids removed and put in schools away from the vast majority of well behaved children. I bet the majority of the children sent to these schools, would suddenly start behaving properly when threatened with these schools. The pupils who join in with the leaders would not want to be sent to "The Dumping Ground" or the Corrective Behaviour Secondary School Unit.

Anyone shouting abusive sexual or threatening violence behaviour towards a member of staff . as well as serious threatening behaviour to other students,should be placed in one of those schools for a minimum period of 3-4 weeks. The scope of these schools would be much larger than PRU units as certain pupils could stay there for their whole secondary education.

The staff at the Corrective Behaviour Secondary School units would be trained in how to deal with bad and violent behaviour. They could use similar protocols used in YOI and NHS ETC in how to restrain and keep control of violent pupils.

Sorry . I bet the vast majority of kids who would be threatened with removal to those units would start behaving.

Uniform has many reasons behind it:

Equality - level out some of the extremes in appearances and allows it to a degree ( I know the differentiate themselves in other ways but its not as bad)
Identity - one of belonging to the school
Identity within community when travelling
Practical - one set of clothes to wear - not having to buy variety of fashion
Denotes different between leisure and school - when you put on your uniform you put on your attitude - ready to work

I used to hate nagging for uniform issues when i just wanted to scribble objectives on board and get bottoms on seats...but I do get how it is the 'look after the pennies and the pounds take care of themselves' principle. Else they find something else to rebel against thats bigger next time.

I got out by the way - I posted much further up thread about attacks, verbal abuse and unfounded complaints.

I loved being in my classroom, doing my displays, fixing trips and guest speakers. I loved it when they turned up at 745 for brainy breakfast revision sessions. Find yourself in a shitty school ie old fashioned management and staffroom politics and the leafy suburbs turn murkey. I wont even go back and do supply.

Im studying for another degree.

My experience as a teacher is making me think twice about going into a public sector role (possible nhs route) and very wary of getting into a position whereby I hate my job so much it makes me feel ill and nearly cost me my marriage.

TheOriginal - what do you think your MissMarple / photographic memory comment will achieve here?

Oh nothing at all, I am sure.
It's just a confusing inconsistency.

I definitely feel for all the teachers who've had those experiences, and I think a poster earlier on was right when she said that this does reflect a general problem in society whereby teachers aren't respected.

Bollocks - you were trying to trip her up.
Maybe she'd had a good week / term. Teachers aren't saying we're attacked every lesson. Most of us still love bits of the job. It's the bits where we're attacked / unsupported / bullied which break us.

Captainjane - I was talking of my dh who went as a teen - so mid to late 80s

feeling I know you're not saying you hate the job, and, as I say, I think it's deplorable that any teacher is ever subjected to that kind of behaviour.

And not bollocks: I do expect to achieve nothing by pointing out what is indeed a confusing inconsistency.

I'm sure no teacher would appreciate being told they could avoid physical abuse by using a death stare, if the conversation was about defending the nature and efficacy of the death stare.

Somebody asked why violence is increasing generally in society and I think it's due to overcrowding. Our school was built for 500 and now had 1300 with a view to expanding to 1500 over 5 years. My old school had 450 and now has 1300. Our school has split breaks and lunches to cope with overcrowding. The corridors are ynsafe with pushing and shoving, tempers flare when students barge and then hide in numbers. Cities are overcrowded and its going to get worse. There is a direct correlation between violent incidents distance from urban areas. Personal space is precious. Houses are being squeezed in left, right and centre, cars are crammed into roadsides , public transport is stressful. More and smaller hospitals and schools would be a good start.

"nyone shouting abusive sexual or threatening violence behaviour towards a member of staff . as well as serious threatening behaviour to other students,should be placed in one of those schools for a minimum period of 3-4 weeks. The scope of these schools would be much larger than PRU units as certain pupils could stay there for their whole secondary education."

EBD schools already exist and many schools have units for EBD children where they can be placed for 3 to 4 weeks. They tend to be called nuture units rather than "the Corrective Behaviour Secondary School Unit." smokepole, have you ever been in a special school with EBD kids? Its not the pancera some people make it out to be.

Lots of LEAs still have EBD schools, but there are not enough places. Its is partly because most EBD schools are single sex (to reduce rape and pregnancy) and there are hardly any EBD schools for girls. Often EBD girls are sent to special schools for children with moderate learning difficulties when they have a normal level of intelligence because there are virtually no places for girls with emotional and behavioural difficutlies.

Violence in special schools is a real serious issue and is getting worse because cuts mean that less teaching assistants are employed. I know people who have had broken bones from working with such children. Its also vital to keep other children in the special schools safe as well.

Most schools have at least one child like this Snowbells.

Then I stand by my stance - parents who produce such kids should be neutered. Seriously. "Producing kids" being everyone's "right"… . I am very, very worried our world will end up like the one shown in IDIOCRACY.

I think there may be something in your comments about overcrowding thatsn0tmyname. In addition, in larger schools pupils can be somewhat anonymous. In a school of 2000 teachers won't have much chance of knowing who the pupil is who swore at them in the corridor and ran off. So more 'minor' problems can't be dealt with as effectively as they should be and pupils may feel untouchable.

Violence isn't increasing generally in society, it's decreasing. Read Stephen Pinker's book The Better Angels of our Nature for all the stats.

There is a problem in schools but remember that just a generation or two ago and previously, there was a vast amount of violence in schools in the other direction. Children could be viciously beaten with a stick. What's more, violence between children, fighting and violent bullying, has always happened in schools and was often taken less seriously in the past than it is now.

This problem of violence towards teachers does have to be dealt with but it sounds as if the problem is that it's not being addressed, kids know they can get away with it. If the rule of law applied to all these assaults (which actually it does, it's just that teachers are under pressure not to report) they would be dealt with, at least as much as other violence in society is.

I agree with smokepole's solution because what it would achieve is a nice environment for most students.

My school has 1500 kids and teachers are rarely assaulted. It's a very middle class area and the parents are generally very supportive.

(but obviously there is a massive cost issue for it to be done well and effectively to help the disruptive ones improve)

Oh I do hate it. I love bits of it - students who 'click' with a topic they've always hated / seeing the pride when an 'underachiever' gets 100% in a test for the first time. But I
fucking hate the vast majority of it.

And yes, bollocks. Nobody has offered up the death stare as a cure all on here. You cannot take a comment from another thread to use against someone!

CaptainJane I don't get your comments at all. I think traffic wardens sometimes apply rules that seem petty to me. If I threaten or attacked one I would quite rightly be arrested. The answer to violence against traffic wardens is not to alter the rules about parking.