Cant get DC into a faith school

[angelfireabbey]

I know this is possibly the wrong place because it seems the whole of MN is atheist or totally secular. However, there is a lot of discussion by MNers here about getting intofaith schools ( often without any faith because they are good schools).

I am a little bit fed up with it. I take my faith seriously. I take my DC to church and we believe. I wanted my DC to have a faith education. There are only two faith schools where I live. They are oversubscribed by parents who seem to have suddenly aquired a need to attend church to get a vicars signiture.

I had my pastors signiture but we didnt get a place. So instead my DC is stuck in a state school where the teachers and other children laugh and say that they have " imaginary friends" ( or simply they are nutters!) and that they believe in fairly stories etc. Sound familiar MN parents? ( I bet you wouldnt say it if someone were of say Jewish or Muslim faith though would you?). It is offensive you know.

They have an atheist teacher who clearly knows next to nothing about Christianity.

I would settle for any faith school although there are no others ( of any faith ) within 40 miles of us.

So how do I get into one? I have asked my church community. I know they are doing their best and we are praying hard but I am sure some savvy non religious types must know more here. So I am asking.
I see thread on thread where parents are scamming the system.So how does a genuine person get in?

Thanks.

"I am not sure she is a "rogue" teacher honestly. I just think its the way its done in community schools"

It most certainly isn't . And the more I think about it, the more I think it must have been a misunderstanding of some sort. I seriously cannot imagine any teacher calling a child a nutcase because of their beliefs. And if it did happen like that - I cannot imagine the Head not taking it seriously. And I have known some pretty crap teachers in my time!

Makes me wonder how the other kids knew the DC's religious leanings, if she'd only been there 6 weeks and never talked about it.

Good point. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Rather late to this thread. Lets not go for conspiracy theories. After all,the OP's DC has been in school at primary. Lets face it, we all know about each other at the school gate or where we live, so why wouldnt other DC know?

I just thought I would add, I have some sympathy with the OP. There is certainly something to complain about here. I can believe it because I have heard other stories similar to this at other schools, especially at one where I once worked. Not suggesting this is the same school.

I think may be sometimes we are quite insensitve to such matters if we have limited faith because we do not experience it in the same way.

Anyway, best of luck with an appeal OP. I think there are grounds for it and you should find the procedure and get writing.

Wuzzup- you have heard of cases where a teacher called a child a "nutcase" because of their religious beliefs?

Unfortunately Hakluyt , I have. As I mentioned. I worked in a school where there was a similar incident. Three teachers were involved. I never got a clear picture of the details. It was a hushed up affair. I do know that the school got rid of their HT pretty sharpish shortly afterwards ( retired off). The three teachers involved are no longer teaching. One runs a caravan park and the other (the one who must have said the deed) left the country. He is in Spain. The child concerned was sent to another school.

But I have witnessed less than sensitive treatment on a lesser scale in other places. It does happen.

So a similar incident. But taken so seriously that 4 teachers lost their jobs. Unlike this case, where noting at all seems to have happened? How are the cases similar?

Sorry- 3 teachers.

I thought administrative errors/not correctly applying the admissions criteria would be grounds for appeal and a place to be given, even if the class grows to over 30.

^^This.

You seem to know what category she was in. Ask the school what the last category admitted was, and what the last admitted distance in that category was. If she has been denied a place due to an administrative error (or even if you suspect this but don't have evidence), you should appeal. Actually, you shouldn't have to appeal if they fess up to the mistake - they should just admit her - but they might not do what they should.

Start a new thread titled something like "Secondary appeal - administrative error", keep away from discussing faith vs non-faith schools (which upsets you) and you'll get tonnes of help on here.

It does seem there is a sub culture within the churches that needs secularism, atheism and humanism to be derogatory words describing an "other" that is against faith, and that is infiltrating community schools where the ethos is somehow amoral, because obviously without a faith environment there can be no ethics or morals. It completely ignores all the majority of hardworking teachers in faith and community schools that do indeed have very strong ethical and moral frameworks whether they have faith or not, and in any case work within a system that requires them to respect faiths and beliefs other than their own.

Further the presence within these schools of those of different faiths or none apparently "dilutes" the special moral ethos and so exclusivity is vital (though strangely not in independent schools )

It is very sad but thankfully it is not the majority...... OP and others who share these prejudices, the Anglican Diocese of Southwark has as it aim to promote diversity and inclusivity in it's schools, because it is consistent with Christian values, something to meditate on....

There is no more evidence to support an atheist position either. You cannot prove that God does not exist any more than you can prove God does exist

Actually there is a lot more.

Why do you think a teacher of another faith would be better than an atheist? Lots of RE teachers are atheist.

As for Muslims sharing a culture - you need to meet a few more, a Muslim with a Pakistani heritage is likely to have in common with a Christian of Pakistani heritage.

Your posts do sound quite biased, are you sure you dc isn't pointing out that she is superior because of your faith? You certainly come across as such.

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/discrimination_e/discrimination_discrimination_because_of_race_religion_or_belief_e/discrimination_because_of_religion_or_belief.htm

According to this your DD and the Jewish and Muslim pupil don't really qualify as being actively discriminated against but they may have been victimised or verbally abused according to legislation.

I don't really know what to advise as they are pupils. If this was a work issue then a chat with the union might be in order.

Religion aside pupils are generally not protected very well under discrimination laws as there is little recourse to challenge teachers, schools and leas when they cock up ie fail to adequately provide for pupils with disabilities. A lot of schools really don't understand their responsibilities or how to fulfil them. It sounds like this teacher and head teacher fall into that category.

surely the point is that
children are in school lessons 6 hours a day 190 days a year = 13% of their time
so if parents really feel strongly about religion for their child,
they have the other 87% of the time to deal with it

ohtobeanonymous said "It does sit uncomfortably when people ... ridicule Christianity personally but are hypocritical with church attendance to get their children into a 'good school'."

Of course it's wrong to ridicule anyone's religion, or lack of religion. However, as others have implied above, it is certainly not hypocritical for a non-believer to jump through same church-attendance hoops as believers to get their child into a preferred school. They have just as much right to send their children to those schools as anybody else, and so long as they don't tell lies along the way, it is no more hypocritical than going to church for a funeral or wedding. It's just infuriating that it's necessary, and hopefully the system will eventually change.

Church Schools need to get back to their roots and start serving their local populations. They like to boast about how they have schools in some of the poorest areas of the country - but then they put so many restrictions on entry that only the most knowledgeable and organised families can get in. No wonder their FSM stats are so often unrepresentative of their local areas.

That doesnt work does it Talkinpeace?

DC spend 12 hours of their day in bed or tired. Two more hours travelling to and from school and an hour a night in homework ( and that excludes holiday homework). That amounts I think to around 30% of their waking hours in education based activities. Then they have to eat and drink and only after that is there time for family things. I know I would like more time to spend with my DC. School (and their teachers) seems to have a far greater share of it than I do. If you take that into account then then there is very little time left for anything. Its not too much different to how much time we as adults spend in work and related activities,and I am sure we all know how little time we have left for a home life and our families, let alone religious activities or even hobbies. I know I am finding that my DC are far more influenced by school than by what I say and spend more time there or doing things for school.

Most children don't spend an hour each way in school related travel - though I do know some local kids who haven't got into their local school and have to travel a long distance away from their community for an education, while other children who aren't local travel in because they're prioritised through faith-based selection.

I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the 'my child should get a faith based education paid for by the state so I don't have to do it in family time' argument when the option is only available for some religions and denominations. Is other people's family time less important?

I'm a little puzzled about what a "faith based" education is. Obviously if the OP's child's experience is as described it is utterly awful and heads should roll. But I still find it hard to believe that it wasn't some sort of misunderstanding, or something. Particularly the Head's reaction-I can't imagine a school where such a complaint wasn't investigated. But I am not clear what the OP expects from a school in terms of a faith based education.

Most children don't spend an hour each way in school related travel Then maybe you are the lucky one JassyRadlet* - I have just returned from driving my DC to the school bus pick up point. Its a 20 min drive, sometimes longer. A walk would be 45 mins up a dark road with no footpath ( an "A" road as well) I had to get out of the house before 7:00 to make it to the stop before 7:15. The bus comes around 7:20. There are children on the bus who have been travelling since 7:00 am on the bus, let alone any walk or drive DP had for them beforehand. They will get to school around 8:30 am. Same coming back. This school is not special in any way. Its the "local " school for my area. Not all of us can afford to live in one of the half dozen houses that are within 10 mins walk of the school. Or even within 20 mins walk of the school. That is, if one were even to come up for sale. Additionally, having a faith school or even one nominally run by a Church would be a luxury. There arent any where I am. Not that I particularly want my DC in an RC or C of E school. But those who might, it isnt an option. When that is the case, or when DP have a faith then I think a school has a responsibility to be sensitive to that. Its just good manners.

"When that is the case, or when DP have a faith then I think a school has a responsibility to be sensitive to that. Its just good manners."

Agreed. How would this manifest itself in the normal course of a school day?

I don't actually see why we need church schools. Look at how low church attendance is - as the op hinted most of the kids in church schools probably aren't attending regularly so it feels a bit outdated.

Faith based education is one where the children are surrounded by others of their own faith so that they don't catch atheism.

I'm not usually so facetious in my posting style but faith school threads make my blood pressure rise. The sense of entitlement and self-obsession!

Ph come on Hakluyt, your posts do not seem that naive generally from what I have seen of them. Misunderstandings, miscommunications, people saying things they should not etc. It happens all the time.
Then you get the defence and the weaving around so that it does not seem as if what was said was in fact said, and its gets complicated if you have to investigate it. An example from the incident I spoke of previously - after the RE teacher was complained about I was asked to take over some of his classes. I was not told anything at all about the incident, niether children nor staff mentioned it. However, the RE teacher took me aside one day about a week after I had begun the work and showed me a letter/ memo, I was not sure quite what it was, which said that the RE department needed to improve and the teaching was not of a suitable standard. He said to me that this was my fault! I couldnt begin to fathom it. I had only taken over the work a week. But it upset me. Like many people I am inclined to take on criticism and look at myself before I start blaming others. Clearly, in the light of what I found out later this was him shifting blame to me. But it took my DH at home, to point out the lack of logic.

I know teachers say a lot of ill advised and thoughtless things ( and I know some who wouldlike to pretend it doesnt happen). I have heard many in my life. Not all become complaints. People shift and twist all the time when something goes wrong. I do not know what happened in the instance of the OP. I do though know what happens in schools and how things twist and change when complaints are made. It took more than six months for a resolution to the case I know of and even then it was kept very quiet. That said, the child concerned was placed elsewhere within a week.

As onlookers we can never know what goes on. Questioning it isnt of any value. The best we can do here is help the OP in whatever advice we can to get what she wants for her DC ( after all thats what we would do for our own DC isnt it?)

Faith based education is one where the children are surrounded by others of their own faith so that they don't catch atheism Good one bryte

But,if I amhonestI wish my DC could go to a school where they might not "catch" a lot of other things I would like them to avoid too. Why is wanting your DC to go to school with others who are like them such a sin
(to use an appropriate religious word)?

So do you think it is remotely likely that an RE teacher would have said to a child "You are a nutcase because you are a Christian?" Really?

How would this manifest itself in the normal course of a school day?

Well I do not think you would be calling a child a nutter for their religious beliefs for a start.

After that I think it gets far more complicated because of the nature of what you are dealing with.