Cant get DC into a faith school

[angelfireabbey]

I know this is possibly the wrong place because it seems the whole of MN is atheist or totally secular. However, there is a lot of discussion by MNers here about getting intofaith schools ( often without any faith because they are good schools).

I am a little bit fed up with it. I take my faith seriously. I take my DC to church and we believe. I wanted my DC to have a faith education. There are only two faith schools where I live. They are oversubscribed by parents who seem to have suddenly aquired a need to attend church to get a vicars signiture.

I had my pastors signiture but we didnt get a place. So instead my DC is stuck in a state school where the teachers and other children laugh and say that they have " imaginary friends" ( or simply they are nutters!) and that they believe in fairly stories etc. Sound familiar MN parents? ( I bet you wouldnt say it if someone were of say Jewish or Muslim faith though would you?). It is offensive you know.

They have an atheist teacher who clearly knows next to nothing about Christianity.

I would settle for any faith school although there are no others ( of any faith ) within 40 miles of us.

So how do I get into one? I have asked my church community. I know they are doing their best and we are praying hard but I am sure some savvy non religious types must know more here. So I am asking.
I see thread on thread where parents are scamming the system.So how does a genuine person get in?

Thanks.

sorry to hear that Angel. I know that the C of E didn't take the dc of our church for a long time because we were the wrong type of church ITMS so I didn't risk it and applied for another school as priority which had a christian ethos (not sure if it still does). However some of the dc from church have got in.

Perhaps your dc is there for a reason and it will help his/her faith to be there and his life experience. I know it is tough though for you

Mocking students isn't 'the way it's done' in non-faith schools. That's actually quite an offensive statement

It is offensive? But its not offensive to tell a Christian that their faith requires that they believe in imaginary friends and that God doesnt exist though, I suppose?

Why is it that its always someone else who is offended? If I am offended I am told to " get over it".

Perhaps your dc is there for a reason and it will help his/her faith to be there and his life experience. I know it is tough though for you

Or to show the system up for what it is?

Why a child has to be used for that I do not understand. Thanks for the support anyway. I am hopeful this morning ( after two weeks of worry) that we may have some resolution soon.

I see no reason why I have to show respect to those faiths who cannot show equal respect to my DD's faith. It cuts both ways.

But as many posters have repeatedly pointed out to you there is a very strong regulatory framework in place to ensure pupils in community schools are taught with respect for and to respect people of other faiths and non. If that does not happen then you have a right to complain right the way up to OFSTED. Those are the moral standards that society sets for it's community schools. Yet you repeatedly trot out your belief that this appalling standard of teaching is business as usual in a community school, that betrays prejudice and a lack of respect.

I never mentioned bullying, other posters have labelled it that.

If staff and pupils are making derogatory remarks about your DDs faith it is bullying, just as if they made comments about her being quiet, wearing glasses, whatever. School bullies zero in on difference to build up their self esteem, be it faith, or any other characteristic. The point I am making is that if this upsets your daughter to the extent you highlight then may be she needs support to help her to handle such situations, helping her with strategies for handling situations, spotting the warning signs and building her confidence in being different . This behaviour occurs in faith schools as much as in community schools, I don't think you do her any favours leading her to believe it will all be OK in a faith school. I know of girls coming in to the sixth form at Oratory feeling bullied when the precise nature of their Catholic beliefs is bought into question by their peers, particularly if they try to proselytise them

Angel - it is offensive to make a sweeping statement based on your experience that other teachers in state schools mock beliefs. Yes, this teacher was offensive, if it has been reported correctly, but assuming all RE teachers are the same is completely wrong.

Those are the moral standards that society sets for it's community schools. Yet you repeatedly trot out your belief that this appalling standard of teaching is business as usual in a community school, that betrays prejudice and a lack of respect

If you read back you will see thast when I firstmentioned this ,several posters suggested that I was oversensitive and that the teacher had said nothing offensive at all. If that is the case,then following logically, the teacher was/ is not a rogue and the "normal" business of the school is to teach RE in the ways applied.
I have been told since by teachers no less, that it is not uncommon for such comments to be made in RE. What may have been different is that they were addressed directly at my DD.

I may well be "prejudiced" Its my DD afterall. But why are we not allowed to have opinions and biasesanymore? You may like goats cheese but I may not be inclined to like it at all. There should be no need for meto eat that cheese because you say so surely? I am not telling you to eat cheddar after all am I? Ditto, faith.

You should probably ask God rather than Mumsnet...

I have.....

Of course it's not the done thing in non-faith schools to ock people with a religious faith. If your daughter was mocked by a teacher in a lesson, then that teacher is absolutely not meeting basic professional standards, and it needs to be addressed by the school as a matter of some urgency. I have a religious faith and teach in a non faith school. It is not the norm in any way at all for teachers to behave like that. I am gobsmacked that you think. It would be, and TBH, I think it reflects your negative views of people without faith, and that is a bit of a worry.

I just want to say HEAR HEAR to this post - very well put:

@JassyRadlett Sun 26-Oct-14 18:13:35

Yes, it's rubbish that you've been given an expectation that you can get a state education that also prioritises your faith and your child over children of other faiths and none.

You should never have been given that expectation, except we have an education system that is hopelessly discriminatory and unfair and prioritises certain faiths at the expense of vast numbers of children.

Your child's school soon sounds bad, so you need to address that. It's not bad because it's a community school. It's bad because it's bad.

You should also recognise your privilege in that your children have had a primary education in a school of your chosen faith in a system that denies large numbers of children a local education because it prioritises the children of churchgoers. I don't have a great deal of sympathy that the state is not continuing to find your daughter's faith school education in a way that is convenient for you.

Angel No it is not acceptable in any school to not show respect for a pupil or her faith. full stop. I don't care what gossiping anecdotes you can summon to support your prejudice, society has put in place a strong framework and if it happens a pupil is protected.

My daughter has had quite a few RE teachers, most of them were of devout faith but still explored with the pupils the diversity of ideas and beliefs required by the curriculum. It isn't about what cheese you prefer it is about the core liberal values of our society. I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

School bullies zero in on difference to build up their self esteem, be it faith, or any other characteristic.

But this is a teacher. I am not suggesting,norhave I anywhere, that she is being bullied by anyone else ( or even the teacher). Are you suggersting then that this teacher is a bully?

The point I am making is that if this upsets your daughter to the extent you highlight then may be she needs support to help her to handle such situations, helping her with strategies for handling situations, spotting the warning signs and building her confidence in being different

This is classic isnt it? My DD is the victim here but now she is being made out asthe one who needsto change, the one who needs the help because she isnt - what/- up to it in somewhay? She is different? How so? She has a faith and now that makes her fair game to be treated this way does it?

Bullying takes place because comments like yours make it acceptable. A victim should never have to be the one who has to dealwith it. On a different note entirely but maybe relevent. If she had been a victim of rape would you be saying that she needs help spotting who the rapists might be and how she can deal with them and having strategies as if it is her fault? No, thought not.

This behaviour occurs in faith schools as much as in community schools, I don't think you do her any favours leading her to believe it will all be OK in a faith school

I have not led my DD to believe all will be Ok in a faith school. I have simply asked why I cannot get into one. On previous experience , my DD was not bullied in her primary school ( which was a faith school). My DD is no longer in a faith school. She does not want to go back to this community school. I wouldprefer she did not now, having thought about it.

particularly if they try to proselytise them

Where has anyone said she has been proselytising? Or indeed that her peers brought her faith into question? This wasa teacher, not her class - although the joke was madeand the class laughed. My DD is not prone to evangelising or wearing her faith on her sleeve as you seem to want to think.

It is offensive? But its not offensive to tell a Christian that their faith requires that they believe in imaginary friends and that God doesnt exist though, I suppose?

You're intentionally misrepresenting. It took a lot of prodding for you to give details of exactly (reportedly) what the teacher said to your child. Since then, no one has said 'that's just the way it's done'.

Extrapolating one teacher's poor behaviour to all teachers in all community schools is as offensive as saying 'all Christians are homophobic, misogynistic pricks' because the Westboro Baptist Church exists.

I would never say the latter, because it's not true. How about you check your assumptions about people who don't check your faith, because you've been really offensive more than once on this thread.

I don't believe in God. You do. Me saying 'I believe there is no God' should be no more offensive to you than you saying 'I believe there is a God' is to me.

yes working in secular education I have been impressed with most teachers.

Angel I was trying to make the best of a difficult situation. Perhaps her faith and character could be used.

the teacher shouldn't be making a joke at her expense but not every teacher in the school is like that surely?

I don't believe in God. You do. Me saying 'I believe there is no God' should be no more offensive to you than you saying 'I believe there is a God' is to me

But that isnt what happened and you know it.

What actually happened was the equivelent of you saying to me " You believe in God which is the same as believing in the tooth fairy and your belief in Jesus makes you a mental health case because you have imaginary friends" and my saying to you " you do not believe in God and therefore you are a fool without a moral compass or any values".

I would never say that to anyone. I am sure you would not either.

I was reticent in giving toomany details because I do not want to out my DD, the school or myself on a public forum. I do not suppose its an every day occurance and it maybe someone knows who we are now anyway if they are local to the school or teach there or similar.

Thank you all for your comments and especially so for the supportive posts. I have a gained a lot of information from my exchanges here. I hope to use at least some of it to produce a more conducive situation for my DD in due course.

I will not comment further but I will keep you updated when I get any further information on my DD's situation.

Thanks.

Your sweeping generalisations about community school teachers is what several of us were trying to say was offensive. Why are you trying to misrepresent what was written by others?

Of course if what was said by this teacher is true, then it was wrong (of course, none of us, including you were there, so it's also wrong to say that we 'know it' but I am assuming that it is what took place for the sake of the thread)

Bottom line is that you (quite rightly) have no preferential treatment in the system and that you will need to wait on the waiting list. But my experience is that these move quite fast.

I spent last night sharing a plane with a group of "Faith" school students.

They were the rudest, most misogynistic young men I've encountered in a long time.
They treated the female cabin crew as if they were part of the furniture and the male cabin crew as servants.
They would not look any other passenger in the eye, did not say please or thankyou to ANYBODY
They crashed around the cabin all night as the rest of us tried to sleep.
By the end of the flight the cabin crew had given up the pretence of smiling at them.

Faith Schools : no thankyou.

Indeed - which is why we are saying that the teacher was wrong. You are twisting people's words, and making generalisations that are just as offensive as the teacher's.

Assuming the RE teacher said what the dd says they did, and it wasn't part of a debate intended to showcase some of the more extreme arguments on both sides of the God existing/not existing question (in which case it sounds really badly handled and the HT should be told), then it's clearly bullying on religious grounds either instigated, encouraged or condoned by the teacher, and needs to be rooted out.

OP, have you asked the teacher for a meeting? if so, what happened? Sounds like you went to the HT and no-one has gotback to you, is that right?

Perhaps someone could advise on how to make the school take harassment of religious pupils seriously, given pupils of other religions seem to be reporting similar experiences?

I thought administrative errors/not correctly applying the admissions criteria would be grounds for appeal and a place to be given, even if the class grows to over 30. I would make contact with your MP to explain the situation and see if he/she can help. I am surprised, as an above poster, that you have the same priority as the members of the school's denomination. Although it does sound like the documents you supplied - one from a bishop and one from a current minister, are unusual and perhaps this is part of the reason it didn't work. I know someone who had two forms to cover the period of attendance required and didn't get a place because the previous vicar messed up the form. I'm also told by church leaders that it's very obvious who the people are who attend just for a school place. It annoys some and others see it as a an opportunity to reach more people, some will stay on beyond getting a school place.

I don't believe the behaviour of this teacher is representative of non faith education, it certainly wasn't in my school. This teacher has crossed a line and needs to be reminded of these boundaries. Muslims have great respect for Jesus as a prophet, so the teacher wasn't just insulting Christians.

Notcitrus There is a very clearly process for making complaints, every school must publicise it as a requirement of OFSTED and if a parent does not get satisfaction from staff or governors then they can go to OFSTED. The requirement to respect other faiths is currently very much at the forefront of schools policy Angel we can not be judge and jury on this but I and everyone else on here has been very clear that on the face of it you should be pursuing a complaint which may indeed uncover a case of a teacher bullying depending on what exactly was said and how

I am not saying your DD is at fault, just that in life we all need skills in defending our beliefs and identity.

And I do think that you betray a disturbing prejudice and entitlement to be found amongst churchgoers against those who do not share their precise brand of faith, and about what goes on in community schools. I have heard plenty of similar in a local debate concerning a proposed exclusive faith school. It is very sad........

And I was merely pointing out an instance of harassment in a prominent faith school, even though girls were espousing Catholic doctrine. I was not saying your DD was proselytising

If she had been a victim of rape would you be saying that she needs help spotting who the rapists might be and how she can deal with them and having strategies as if it is her fault?

Giving her strategies to deal with bullies is equivalent to teaching her self defence. It is not the same as "victim blaming"