Cant get DC into a faith school

[angelfireabbey]

I know this is possibly the wrong place because it seems the whole of MN is atheist or totally secular. However, there is a lot of discussion by MNers here about getting intofaith schools ( often without any faith because they are good schools).

I am a little bit fed up with it. I take my faith seriously. I take my DC to church and we believe. I wanted my DC to have a faith education. There are only two faith schools where I live. They are oversubscribed by parents who seem to have suddenly aquired a need to attend church to get a vicars signiture.

I had my pastors signiture but we didnt get a place. So instead my DC is stuck in a state school where the teachers and other children laugh and say that they have " imaginary friends" ( or simply they are nutters!) and that they believe in fairly stories etc. Sound familiar MN parents? ( I bet you wouldnt say it if someone were of say Jewish or Muslim faith though would you?). It is offensive you know.

They have an atheist teacher who clearly knows next to nothing about Christianity.

I would settle for any faith school although there are no others ( of any faith ) within 40 miles of us.

So how do I get into one? I have asked my church community. I know they are doing their best and we are praying hard but I am sure some savvy non religious types must know more here. So I am asking.
I see thread on thread where parents are scamming the system.So how does a genuine person get in?

Thanks.

So do you think it is remotely likely that an RE teacher would have said to a child "You are a nutcase because you are a Christian?" Really?

Hakluyt , I think it is possible. I know you may not like that answer because it does not accord with your own ideas, but such things happen a lot in my experience.

I couldn't read all of this thread, which I know is a big confession. But the first couple of pages, and from what I see no change towards the end... the pasting you've had on here is exactly the problem you are encountering in real life, and I don't see what you said in your first post to deserve that. I have never heard a Jewish, Muslim or Hindu person being asked to justify their faith and beliefs in the way Christians are, both here and in physical life.

Not hard to get into faith schools where we live, schools generally are not oversubscribed, but some of them are the only schools in their area, and I am not convinced it is appropriate that they are faith schools as it leaves many without a "choice", whereas parents can educated their children further on any aspect of religion that they choose to, outside of school.

FWIW, I have no issue with atheists or agnostics teaching RE. I do have a problem with RE having the large place it does in secondary level teaching in England (I grew up in Scotland. My RE ceased in S2, I believe). I also would like to see it rebranded as Philosophy/Ethics/Conscience or something similar, because these are the issues that are being covered, not just Religion.

Tolerance, that's what I believe in. By and towards people of any, all and no faith. I hope a place becomes available for your daughter soon, as people do move away.

"So do you think it is remotely likely that an RE teacher would have said to a child "You are a nutcase because you are a Christian?" Really?

Hakluyt , I think it is possible. I know you may not like that answer because it does not accord with your own ideas, but such things happen a lot in my experience."

Could you give some more examples, please?

"I have never heard a Jewish, Muslim or Hindu person being asked to justify their faith and beliefs in the way Christians are, both here and in physical life."

You must lead a very sheltered life then!

It's a shame you didn't read the whole thread. Did you get to the bit where op said it was the norm for RE teachers in community schools to belittle Christian beliefs?

I too believe very strongly in tolerance but wasn't getting that vibe at all from the op who seemed to hold quite a few prejudices of her own.

And in my school It's not called RE for exactly the reasons you have given.

Trust me, Hakluyt, I don't.
Key to that comment was "in the way".

Sorry- don't understand!

wildlings - what do they call it? I had trouble with just so much bashing. I heard a frustrated and defensive person in the first post. No, I don't recall reading that comment of OP, but how does it help the discussion to pick on individual phrases that people type? People resort to hyperbole when they're feeling got at. Perhaps that is op's normal experience. It's not mine, nor yours I think. To be honest, in my experience, RE teachers themselves suffer belittling.

It is my experience, that in my kids' CE primary school, only one of the 15 or so teaching staff, have exhibited any sort of faith. This comes across in that they do not seem entirely comfortable with the elements of worship that are involved, but they are carried out respectfully, and with no imposition of "we believe", it's always "some people believe" or "Christians believe". As a school where most kids are there because it is the only school in town, I think this is the right balance. I'm not sure it should be a CE school. I'm not sure I agree with faith schools at all. And yet it played a part in our choice of this school.

We all have prejudices of various sorts. I don't agree with tolerating bullying. I don't think you do either.

Philosophy/Ethics/Conscience or something similar

Aimey, in some ways I think you may have a point.I would be quiteradical and suggest that neither religion, atheism oranything else should be taught in schoolsat all. Not even as a "fact" based discipline.
It is quite possible to teach philosophy and ethics (from such as Plato and Aristotle) as a classical subject without recourse to any relgious belief or to no belief at all.

I think too often the teaching of RE is leaving children with little or no knowledge of anything anyway. However, if we are going to take that route then I think there should be a provision for those who feel differently. RE is an hour or less per week in most school curricular yet it seems the most contentious.

It would be an interesting experiment just to see how many would opt for RE if it were a choice between it and some non faith ethics class. I know where I work RE is a very popular GCSE and very popular in lower school too.

On a different note, private schools are very often faith based and more overtly so than any others (with Chapels and Chaplains and Choirs etc) but very few have the problems state schools have with RE and they also take in many children of different cultures, faiths and of course of none.

Yes, I agree and I worry that faith schools end up encouraging intolerance by allowing a segregation of different belief communities.

Op seemed very keen to move her daughter because the teacher was an atheist and therefore would ridicule her. She didn't want her exposed to different ideas. She has a case (if it happened the way she reported it) to complain about the ridicule but was certain that this is standard practise in community school, which it certainly is not. Prejudice works both ways, don't you think?

In our school it is called IBEC (which from memory stands for something like identity, beliefs, ethics and culture)

And the OP did start off by assuming that all mumsnetters are atheists, that everyone cheats to get into faith schools and the classic "you wouldn't talk to a Muslim/Jew/Hindu like that" as if Christians are uniquely discriminated against.............

Hakluyt . OP may feel that way. She is entitled to express an opinion. Like Aimey, I saw a post from someone distressed and frustrated.

wazzup, what are the national stats on travel to school time? I'd be interested to see what's a representative figure.

I agree the school has a responsibility to be sensitive, it should not have a responsibility to provide religious instruction in a certain faith.

So it's OK for her to throw accusations around and she mustn't be challenged on them? Is that because she is Christian?

For the record, there isn't a single poster saying that the incident she described is anything but appalling, and should have been reported and taken seriously..........

Incidentally, wazzup- you said you knew of lots of cases where teachers had said things like "you must be a nutcase if you are a Christian" to their students. Could you give us a few examples, please?

hakluyt, you are posting exactly what I feel about the incident the OP describes.

I'm not saying there are things anyone - including a teacher - would never say. I just find it very difficult to believe that a teacher could call a child a "nutcase", in front of 30 witnesses (and very likely another adult in the class) and that the school would simply refuse to investigate it.

Could you give some more examples, please?

Hakluyt, I am sure I could give many more examples but that is not the purpose of this thread is it?

Similarly, JassyRadlett, I do not think it is a requirement of MN that I serve you up with national statistics.

In both instances I am simply demonstrating that things are not as simple as you might like and that many things happen.

Yes, wuzzup, but most people look at the balance of probability.

To me, having worked in schools now for 12 years, I would consider it unlikely that a teacher would call a child a "nutcase" because she is a Christian, that the comment, as the OP states upthread, would witnessed by the whole class and verified by other parents and that when she complained to the school, nothing was done about it.

So it's OK for her to throw accusations around and she mustn't be challenged on them? Is that because she is Christian?

No, I think its because she is a human being and this is MN. Human beings have feelings, they get upset and frustrated and fearful and often look for help, especially on places like MN.
MN a social network for support and help for parents not a debating society or an academic essay where statements have to be supported. OP is expressing an opinion - as am I here.

I also think that if someone posts an assertion that they should be able/prepared to support it with evidence.

But some of the opinions the OP expressed in the opening sentences of her OP were extremely judgemental. She started from a very confrontational standpoint.

So I think questioning her assertions is a reasonable response.

Oh, and wuzzup, she didn't sound upset, frustrated and fearful to me.

She sounded accusatory and judgemental.

Oh dear *SurburbanRhonda" , we can cat call the differences forever cant we? We can exchange " your experience is bigger than mine " equally so. I have been teaching for 22 years - so what?

You have to be right because you think it is "unlikely" and I am wrong because I have met examples of it in my career? And none of this is helping the OP is it?

I can offer an example of a teacher who called a pupil a "bar in front of 30 witnesses and a TA. It does happen .

Its more a case of boo /hurrah ethics really now.

not a debating society

I would disagree with that. the things I love here are the debates, the humour, the many and varied experiences as well as the support.

And you should challenge accusations that are wrong, especially when the person expressing them is fearful. That's how prejudice spills over.

wazzup and aimey did you actually read OPs post? To me it was intrinsically bitter, prejudiced and entitled. Frustrated,yes distressed, yes but it arose from a set of attitudes and perceptions which she set out loud and clear.

Not least this had my pastors signiture but we didnt get a place. So instead my DC is stuck in a state school where the teachers and other children laugh and say that they have " imaginary friends" ( or simply they are nutters!) and that they believe in fairly stories etc. Sound familiar MN parents? ( I bet you wouldnt say it if someone were of say Jewish or Muslim faith though would you?). It is offensive you know.

She has since back peddled from "teachers and other children" saying her DD is a nutter to it being one teacher. That people who have other experiences and understand the regulatory frameworks in place would respond in defence of teachers and community schools, and other parents in faith schools is not exactly surprising. I strongly suspect that the OP only normally interacts with that section of her parish congregation that reinforce her views. Sadly it is a sub culture in our churches, of every sect, which mean that even if a churches pastoral leaders seek diversity and inclusivity and more enlightened christian attitudes in it's schools as some Anglican Bishops do they make little head way with their Parishes.