What do you know about Steiner schools?

[hunkermunker]

Anyone been to one? Sending their children to one? Know children who go?

plummymummy, you are being a bit of a nippy sweetie, are you not? i don't think thankyoupoppet has done anything to warrant the 'attitude' (in the young people's sense of the word) that you have been showing her.
If your last message was supposed to be conciliatory (which i think it may have been)then consider me utterly bewildered now.
night all, play nice.

Lunavix, please tell me that you're not seriously making decisions about your child's schooling based on a MN thread?! Go and see for yourself, as I have - then at least you can decide for yourself. I don't recognise the Steiner school and approach that I saw for myself reflected in many of the posts here.

dunno-go and have a look at a Steiner open day, sure, but that won't tell you what actually goes on in the classroom day in, day out, what happens when the teacher is grumpy, what really happens when bullying starts, what happens when theres a teacher-child conflict, what really happens to Steiner pupils when they leave...thats where you need MN, I reckon!

aitch71 no it wasn't really conciliatory. It was a resigned "ok whatever". Disagree by the way, think I was justified.

plummy, resignation accepted.

filly -
don't you think this would be exactly the same at any school you visited?

If you are extremely unfortunate to have this kind of problem with your lo's at any school then the parent will need to address it and if that doesn't work then find another school,or like you - homeschool.

But no visit to any school will tell you about their bullying problems they have had or any of the rest of the ins and outs at all.

By visiting the school you absolutly will get a very different impression than the impression taken from some posts on here and if any parents feel that Steiner school is for their lo's then I really hope you are not in the extreme minority who find it all a miserable experience.

filly do you seriously think it is not even worth a visit for prospective parents?

I considered a Steiner school when I was looking around since I would never have sent dd to a German state school. However I decided against it. Can't remember now exactly what it was that didn't appeal to me. The main attraction was that they had Russian and not English as a first foreign language (which is better for us personally) and that I find teaching methods in the state schools here very outdated and I hoped for more flexibility in a private school.

I didn't like the eurythmy (although I don't think it's the end of the world) and a few other things I read about. I was ok with the no-tv approach since I'm like that anyway but I did wonder whether it was a good preparation for university. As far as I know, the reports are not graded and there comes a time when you do have to deal with exams/grades and things.

Fillyjonk I found your comment: "state schools are bloody vile" an offensive thing to post on a website that must have a good proportion of parents with children at state schools. My son's school isn't vile at all nor are the children and teachers in it vile.

However I defend your right to post whatever you think and also my right to post that it hurt my feelings and seemed an extraordinary opinion to have. I am happy that people can disagree here as strongly as they like but also that we can disagree without being insulting.

Some threads seem to have a bit of a nasty atmosphere. There are often self-appointed posters-in-charge-of-tone who tell people how they should respond and tick them off for not having a sense of humour or for taking offence etc. This seems a little like bullying to me.

I've always believed that mn should be a forum based on mutual respect. Shouldn't people be free to respond/feel however they do without being told off? There are plenty of subjects to laugh about other than each other and each other's beliefs and sensitivities. It takes a lot of maturity to accept that we can't control how other people think and feel.

Stroppy posts full "get over yourself!" and "stop being so sensitive!" remind me of those gangs of 'cool' prefects who were nasty and justified it by saying "oh come ON we're only JOking!" .

and now i feel a bit bullied by what you've just written, Queenceleste. is that what you were hoping to achieve?

we are either allowed to have disagreements or we are not. we are either allowed to express our opinions with vigour or we are not. but if you do defend our right to free speech then we should be allowed to point out if we feel people are laying it on a bit thick without being accused of being bullies, because that takes things to another level entirely.

It's the conversation-stopper, the high stakes gambit, and it really pisses me off.
'You are all bullies... (but i'm not naming you, just waggling a finger)'
'Oh shit,' says everybody on the thread, 'I don't want people to think i am a bully, better cease posting on this subject.' End of conversation.

actually, i don't think anyone has been out of order particularly. Thankyoupoppet has (much to her surprise, i feel) become a fervent advocate of Steiner, Filly isn't, but clearly doesn't think a great deal of state schools either, Plummymummy is bewildered by the tone but resigned to the fact that she and Thankyoupoppet will not agree, I was pissed off my a stray 'ugh', long since explained, and i am within my rights to ask Plummy if she feels she isn't going a bit far with her attitude to Thankyoupoppet. She doesn't, by the way, which i happily accept.

Of course, I may have got that wrong because i am only reading what has been written here and that is subject to misunderstanding. but i would hate to feel that anyone here had felt bullied on this thread, so i hereby issue an apology if that has been the case.
But i deeply resent being pulled up by someone who hasn't noticeably been on the thread and seems to be on a bit of a hobby horse with regards to 'cool crowds'. i would remind you all that we are not at school any more and vague references to 'self-appointed posters-in-charge-of-tone' without naming the accused is a form of bullying in itself.

well it's tricky..

I have to admit- although I have used mumsnet for over a year, I have never really been this heavily involved in a thread and I have found it quite a learning experience.

I have been frustrated and mad and pissed off and annoyed, I've laughed, had-a-go-back and felt smug at points but in real life a conversation would never go this far and I have really listened to other's points of veiw that I would never otherwise have heard before.

I have learnt on this short thread that some people like to try and push buttons and that it is best to rise above them (or play them at their own game) I can understand how people will feel hurt by the tone of others and I understand the need for others to challenge that.

But isn't this all about what makes mumsnet so fantastically addictive?

or is it just me that couldn't sleep the other night because I couldnt wait to see what had been posted next???

QueenCeleste said: "Fillyjonk I found your comment: "state schools are bloody vile" an offensive thing to post on a website that must have a good proportion of parents with children at state schools. My son's school isn't vile at all nor are the children and teachers in it vile. "

I NEVER said the kids or teachers were vile. I would NEVER call another human vile. NEVER. So don't slur me with that please.

I will say what I like about schools. I have been to 4 state schools, I have been to 1 Steiner school, I have worked in schools. I have my opinions about school as an institution. If you seriously have a problem, go ahead and report me to MN Towers, ffs.

That nasty comment aside, I think this has been a great thread. I have learnt a lot. I think everyone knows I am coming from a kooky, hippy dippy, HEing stance anyway (see, poppet, thats what happens when you send you kids to Steiner school-think of your grandchildren! )

I really hope Poppet in particular you didn't feel got at. I really do. You didn't seem got at, you seemed to be defending your points lucidly and well, so I was just enjoying the debate really.

agree filly -great thread, don't feel at all got at.
and hey, I would be the proudest granny in town if my grand-kids were hippy-dippy-doo-dah.

aitch, I was not"trying to achieve" anything other than saying what i think which is what these boards are for aren't they?

I did not say: 'You are all bullies.." at all. I said the atmosphere can be a bit bullying. I don't think this thread had a particularly nasty atmosphere but I personally find it uncomfortable when some posters are serious about a subject and feeling vulnerable while on the same thread there are posters who seem to be just having a laugh. Having a laugh is wonderful of course but I don't like it when it is at the expense of people's feelings. I also dislike it when people are getting upset and are then encouraged to have an acceptable response. You have to accept that this is my opinion and and I have to accept that yours is yours that's all. This is a personal view.

Re bullying - I have been on mumsnet sites, showed emotion about something and felt landed on by what feels like a bunch of friends and that just doesn't feel nice if you've written something true to yourself. What I wrote below feels true to me - genuinely. It's not aimed at you - just at how some threads make me feel. And surely that's valid as well.

You imply that I had less right to contribute because I hadn't been on the thread. Actually I was reading it and thinking about what I had to say. Then when I was about to make a contribution I was very thrown by someone saying "state schools are bloody vile". I'm still upset by that.

Of course we are not at school anymore. I was not aiming what I said at you. But I stand by what I say which is that some threads have an unpleasant atmosphere in my opinion. And some threads definitely have 'self-appointed posters-in-charge-of-tone'. You may not like what I say but that doesn't make it untrue.

poppet at hippy-dippy grandkids.

will be seeing you on the HE boards in 20 years then

qc I happen to agree with a lot of what you are saying. I think though that the nature of 'being brave behing a comuter screen' means that some people will be provocative and seemingly thoughtless to feeling. but actually there are no faces on here and that is what makes it easier to ignore than to get upset as if it were a friend saying it.
have you read any of the bottle/breast threads? they are way off limits for me!!

fillyjonk, our posts crossed. sorry if I misunderstood you. I always think of schools as being the sum total of the children and the staff and the parents too for that matter. Some posters on other threads seem to be so down on the state system that you can feel they're attacking your child. Sorry to be over sensitive.

What I really wanted to say was my only experience of Steiner education is my friends 2 daughters and they are delightful. Very calm, gentle, loving and creative children with an enormous sense of their own identity without being at all egotistical. But I have no idea how much that is due to their family or their school.

thanks poppet, crossed your post too. I love mn really. I love the vigour of debate but have super senstive days when I shouldn't go online!

Can't believe I missed this thread!
My mum is a steiner teacher of 15 years, and I would gladly send mine if if weren't for the cost-which we just can't afford.
I have a real interest in Steiner, and have read most of his books, to get an insight into his beliefs. Yes some is off the wall, but other aspects I really like and can understand.
The type of teaching can't be suited to everyone, but for alot of children, esp my DS1 they can/will really benefit. I have a steiner primary school 5 miles away, and it looks fantastic,lovely polite, confident free spirited children. Shame its over a grand a term!

bring on school vouchers!!

Ah, its ok, QC, no offence taken.

I don't like schools. I don't think they're where kids should be. I don't mean to cause offence with these views but...those are my views. Private or state, Steiner or whatever-I just don't like them. They're all pretty similar, IMO.

I'm sorry you find MN bullying. I do agree that I have found some things quite distasteful of late, eg the "smoke out all trolls" campaign which seems to have been running recently.

Its hard. But thats peer pressure for you. Pressure to conform. I think you get it in any large group, tbh.

Which is why, among other reasons, I am home educating

thankyoupoppet - your assessment of mumsnet is spot on. agree entirely.

thanks all, i have had one of those learning threads here! Much truth is spoken in vigorous debate. Am oversensitive today. As I read once on another thread - I should put my hands in the air and walk away from the keyboard sometimes!
The whole subject of school (I went to four different ones, state, catholic, private, american - all so different some marvellous some destructive) is irrational for me I think.

to comment on what you wrote to me, queenceleste, all our opinions are valid, yes, but you should be aware for the future that if you mention bullies, cool crowds and 'self appointed' types you can't honestly expect that to go unchallenged.

it's all a bit wishy-washy, to be honest...'some threads', 'some people' etc etc. if that's how you feel about mumsnet then post it as a new conversation in chat and see how you go. you might even find me on there agreeing with you.

but if you post these feelings on one particular thread and don't identify who you think is responsible then you will offend those (me, if you need a specific example) who feel they are being accused.

i know that you've sorted everything else out and you've said that you were having a sensitive day, which is of course fine. but i'm posting because i would like you to consider that people saying 'oh i was only joking' may not be that different from 'it is my opinion and i have a right to express it'. people have a right to make jokes, too, do they not?

anyway, i'm not wanting to get into an argument with you, i just felt that by being vague but posting on this thread rather than starting a new one, you were having a go at people specific to this thread, which made me distinctly uncomfortable. i'm glad that you have got everything sorted with everyone else.

aitch, I don't think someone saying "Oh I was only joking" is anything like someone saying honestly how they feel. I think teasing people isn't very nice. That's my opinion. Openly affectionate teasing is great and common on mn. But on this thread there was lots of laughing about elves etc I don't believe in elves but if I was a Steiner enthusiast I would feel the piss was be taken. typoppet actually said at one stage that people were taking the piss.

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't - I'm just saying my ideal of mumsnet is more respectful of people's serious opinions. I think teasing about serious stuff does genuinely remind me of groups at school which can dominate the tone. I don't take that back but am aware you're uncomfortable with it. I think you saying I'm vague and wishy washy is a little derogatory and I also don't see why I can't describe an atmosphere without being specific. This isn't a law court and it's not hard to read the atmos of a thread.

But more specifically, as you've asked, I'm uncomfortable with your being quite bossy about where I should post which thing and whether I constitute a part of a thread or not. This doesn't seem, imo, to be up to you. I am being careful to say what I think, I hope I'm not actually telling anyone what to do - I really believe that there should be room to make observations without telling anyone that they have to do anything.

I also found your response to the 'ugh' kind of overthetop and again, kind of aggressive in atmosphere and you took it back later... I just felt the first response was a bit too much and it made me uncomfortable and loathe to post until I did later. I didn't want to spell it all out but I can only defend what I say and beg to differ about style and content. I can only say how I feel. I can't tell you to do anything. But I really got something from this site today and value everyone's honesty as well.

I usually know when I'm starting a controversial thread

This time though...not a clue!

Wild...

Anyway Wisp, I thought Steiner schools had income-based fees. The one I looked at here in Germany did. There is always a fee but they can lower it at their discretion, to make the school affordable for everyone. The school website said expressly that no one should be put off from applying because they couldn't afford the fees. However if you COULD afford them but don't WANT to pay them, it doesn't help!