thinking of sending ds to a private school - advise needed please!!!!!

[jinna]

my ds is 5 and has been in a state school since reception - we are now thinking to send him to a private prep school - the reasoning being that hopefully he will be able to get into a good grammar school later on . This grammar is heavilky oversubscribed and we feel the only way he would be able to get in is if he gets a lot of support. He is doing well at the state school but with more personal attention at the prep school he should progress well.

My husband and myself went to see the prep school and were surprised and the differences in the schools - the class size was smaller and the sports facilities were great - but the atmosphere felt very disciplined and formal - is this the norm for prep schools - we want our DS to do well but don't want him to lose his personality.

Also the prep school has its own curriculum and also have their own inspection - how do you tell if they are teaching to the right standard. We have no experience of private education and independent schools - so please any advise would be great

class isn't an issue for us, we're still fairly working class - educated highly enough but still working class on the face of it - for whatever the defintion is worth
I know my son will prob be bottom of the social rung at the private school should he go, that presents new challenges of course. We live now in a middle class area, one of the richest in the UK, sad to say that the schools locally do not reflect the higher standards I presumed they would!
I doubt that the "middle class" kids will be any more articulate though!

Ditto Kiwisbird. Most of the parents that send kids to dds school are not upper class. The vast majority would be defined as middle class I suppose, but large numbers of them are from working class backgrounds. The car park is not full of Mercs and Jags but beaten up Fords on the whole.

No, I actually think that your ideas are sound....if only we were allowed to enforce them! I think that children in secondary school need to realise that their behaviour has consequences, both for them and the other people in their classes. I have lost count of the number of lessons where time is wasted dealing with the bad behaviour of small numbers of students. Some of them will simply not stop taking for you to teach them anything at all.

The irony is that the kids who need to most teaching are the ones who tend to end up in classes which are most often disrupted by bad behaviour. We have setted classes in my school. The top set is a dream to teach, not because of the ability, but because in general the kids are prepared to learn. The further down the set you go, the more disruptive some of the kids become. My heart breaks for some kids who are desparate to learn, but just don't get the help they need because I spend so much time on crowd control.

ASDT, after school detention

frogs - yes we did think about getting ds tutoring and keeping him in the state school - but i feel this may be tough on him - going all day at school and then doing tutoring at home - when will he have time for sports , etc - also the school has very good sports facilities - still confused - it is a very hard decision !

Totally agree hmb. It's fine if your child gets into the top set but if not then it's very tough.

I agree with what you are writing hmb. We have exactly the same issues, and we have a so called home school agreement too.

You know, today I had to invigialte some Y10 exams Even at that age pupils could not sit in silence; we had to remove 3 boys as they were making such a disruption it was hindering other pupils. How fair is that. No doubt they will escape punishment too.

Also today had a low abaility Y7 ICT group. 4 boys turned up 10 minutes late, 3 worked their way through our new discipline policy (goves them 6-7 warnings!!!) - 2 ended up with after school detentions within the department; one ended up having to be removed from class. Alll this within one lesson. So how much teaching and learning happened? What about those who wanted to learn (OK - not birghtest kids in the world but they wanted to have a go and learn something new) - were they able to? Not really no - as aan overall lesson I would say it wasn't great. The disruptions were too much Sadly, way too common.

I have to add that I dont know any teachers in the state school I work in who wouldn't send their kids privately.

Snap hercules - where they can afford to do so most of the teachers at my school seem to do so too (or have plans to). I think that says a heck of a lot about a school much more so than any OFSTED report or league table could.

Ditto. It is generaly felt to be more important for the boys than girls. In general girls seem to get on with the work reasonably well, but boys need the structure and dicipline that a private of selective school can give. I know that my son would do very badly in the school I work at.

And the school I work at isn't the worst in the worst in the area. And the schools in our area are nothing like those in inner city areas.

Jinna, definitely investigate the C.E./11+ figures. C>E> is a completely different type of exam. arguably, if the school is up to much the kids should pass 11+ with ease, but worth investigating.

BTW, the grammar school selection policy up here means that my DD won't necessarily be pushing bright, w-c kids out of grammar schools. The kids take the tests and the LEA decides what the "pass" mark for that year is; all children who achieve the pass mark or over are then allocated places on the basis of closeness to the grammar schools (for 4/6 schools) and closeness to the school and faith (for 2/6 schools). 4/6 grammar schools are in the poorer areas and the schools that get the highest numbers of pupils into these schools are not necessarily the private preps. The most selective schools are the 2 grammars on the other side of the borough as a 3 bed terrace costs £225k, quite a lot for a house in one of the country's most deprived boroughs!

As I explained previously, we have multiple reasons for not sending DD to the local schools, but it didn't seem appropriate to go into all that in reponse to jinna's question.

I have never in my life set foot in a secondary school, and am rather horrified at the prospect of sending ds1 (G&T) there in 4 yrs time. He may win a scholarship, but I would make all sacrifices to pay for private education. But dh doesn't agree.

Can I ask is it standard in secondary schools nowadays that they are setted for all subjects?

roisin - some state secondaries are good so don't feel too dwnhearted. My last school was excellent with a very high pass rate and super OFSTED reports. I would have happily sent my own children there.

In the schools I have taught in (or know about) setting is common for core subjects.

At our school setting is done for Maths, English and Science - then those sets are followed through for other subjects. For example, in ICT I have the science setting - not ideal but works for top and bottom sets. And have a riugh idea then of rest.

At my l;ast school again key subjects were setted but then other subjects (non core ones) were in form sets.

It will vary from school to school. In out school the kids are setted at some point in Y7 in English, Maths, MFL and sciences. All other subjects are taught in mixed ability sets, usualy their form groups. Some of the more disruptive children are withdrawn from some lessons, or are 'spead around' different form groups so that they don't ruin the whole education of the rest of the children in their form group. They get to ruin the education of a wider range of children for one lesson each day.

And yes, I would agree that some state schools are excellent.

Agree with hulababy and hmb

Thanks Hula that's helpful. Our local secondaries (not much to choose between the 4 of them) are not great, though I do have some friends who teach there, and I know they do a great job. I just can't imagine ds1 thriving in that sort of atmosphere.

the grammar school we are hopeing to send our son is heavily over subscribed - it is the only grammar in the local area - the other thing that worries me is if he does not get the marks to get into the grammar then what will our choices be - going to a state comprehensive or going to a private secondary school - but that will push us financially a great deal !!! - after reading all the comments about comprehensives i feel we will have little choice

roisin - IME class room teachers in the 'worse' schools aften are working much harder than those in the 'good' schools. I have worked at both ends and I know I do, and from what I see every day I know others do too.

Sorry, overlapped, thanks hmb and hercules too.

I should bloomin well think so too!

Hmb - or anyone! - what is the reason for not setting for 'all other subjects'?

I guess it would be timetabling issues mainly. If every lesson was setted you would have different pupils in different classes/sets every lesson of the week. Timetabling would no doubt be a nightmare to organise - to ensure all children were taught all the necessary subjects every week.

Hope that isn't too rambling

Partly I think so they can mix with their tutor group . In my school the setting is slightly different. There are 9 classes of usually 30 kids. The top 3 are the most able and the bottom 2-3 the least. The middle bit is mixed. The top are the best to teach, the bottom not too bad. The worst tbh is the middle as lots of the kids have a poor attitude and the brains to be a pain.