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Original poster

11plus pressure

82 replies

beachhead · 05/05/2014 18:31

Hi I'm trying not to get too stressed, living in a grammar school catchment.10 mins walk from the grammar got to try the 11+

It's hard getting a 10 yr old to do extra study, I'm using Bond sample test maths papers. Every day just trying about 30 mins work.

Anyone got ideas on how not to end up having ds hating me?

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 07/05/2014 17:39

There are no comprehensive schools in Grammar counties???
Yes there are - there are 2 grammar schools near us and numerous comprehensives

Xihha · 07/05/2014 17:47

Sorry retropear, I should of started that with if you are struggling to get him to study every day then giving him some time off might help. Plus I read every day to mean 7 days a week, so 3.5 hours a week, which seemed a lot.

Some children will suit little and often but the reason doing it at the weekend worked better for us was then it was done and out the way rather than trying to fit it in around clubs and wanting to relax after school. DS is at a non-pushy state primary too but can be a right grouch when he's tired after school, I've no idea how I'm going to balance it with the amount of homework from DD's pushy prep but I've got years before I need to worry about that.

Xihha · 07/05/2014 17:49

There are no comprehensive schools in grammar school counties. what?? of course there are, Grammar schools wouldn't be very selective if they were the only option!

Martorana · 07/05/2014 17:51

With apologies to taffeta- there are no comprehensive schools in wholly selective counties.

Taffeta · 07/05/2014 17:58

Comprehensive means all ability. Grammar school counties do NOT have comprehensive schools as the non grammar schools are not all ability.

You are referring probably to mixed counties where there are a very few super selective grammars and comprehensives. Not the case where I am in Kent - it's wholly grammar and there are no comprehensives.

Taffeta · 07/05/2014 17:59

....so the non grammar options are academies, tech colleges etc. They are NOT comprehensives.

Xihha · 07/05/2014 18:05

I'm in Kent, but actually looking at the schools near me, you're right none of them say comprehensive in the names anymore, they used to, I just hadn't noticed it had changed Confused

Taffeta · 07/05/2014 18:09

This is what they used to be called

They have fancy names now, but are essentially the same thing.m

Xihha · 07/05/2014 18:13

Ha, I'm not that old! I was thinking of St Greg's in Tunbridge wells which was St Gregory's Catholic Comprehensive School until they dropped the 'Comprehensive' relatively recently.

Taffeta · 07/05/2014 18:16

Faith schools again, are different.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 07/05/2014 18:17

If you are in a grammar only catchment, don't the school prepare the kids for the 11 plus?

Taffeta · 07/05/2014 18:25

No they don't, as it is not part of the national curriculum and not all children sit it, so it's not fair to take up time with it. It is not allowed at any state schools in my county that I'm aware of. Independent schools are a different matter I believe.

Martorana · 07/05/2014 18:32

In Kent, primary schools are expressly forbidden to do more than a couple of familiarization papers for the 11+. Many do, but technically the whole exam could be declared void for any school caught giving coaching. But no parent is going to shop a school that does!

herdream1 · 07/05/2014 20:02

In those "grammar only catchment" areas, how likely for the children at other secondary schools (comprehensive without the top x% schools) to achieve just as well as those at grammars??

Martorana · 07/05/2014 20:28

Extremely unlikely. Most of the " top" 25% are bound to do better than most of the the other 75%. By definition.

herdream1 · 07/05/2014 20:36

Thank you Matorana. that is very sad. So failing 11plus is a kind of end of the world there???

Martorana · 07/05/2014 20:41

No-of course not. But you can't possible expect a school with a cohort of middle and lower ability children to do as well in terms of results as a school with a cohort of high ability children. But that doesn't mean that the kids at the high school can't do as well as they at capable of. Value added at high schools is often better than it is at grammars.

herdream1 · 07/05/2014 20:52

Well my point was that, if/when the alternative schools are not producing any pupil who achieves as well as grammars, can we take let's-see-what-happen type of relaxed approach for 11plus. In my area, there ARE a few children who do just as well at comprehensives (thus called), which helps us not to get too stressed for the exam.

HercShipwright · 07/05/2014 20:57

Martorana, why the "" around "top"? Are you disputing that the grammars in Kent take the kids with the top 25% of scores on the test? Are there other factors eg catchment, siblings, that can influence obtaining a grammar school place. If so then surely Kent is not fully selective?

Martorana · 07/05/2014 21:01

There are children who do as well, obviously. Just not very many of them- as I said, by definition. Not because the schools can't teach them, just because the high achieving kids aren't there. For example, my ds's school school has 8% high attainers. Even if that 8% all get all As, that won't make much of an impact on the results overall.

Martorana · 07/05/2014 21:05

I am not disputing that the 25% who pass the test go to grammar schools. Whether they are necessarily the brightest 25% is open to question. They may well be. But it is a very interesting coincidence that that 25% includes very few children on free school meals. Or children not from middle class families. So, unless you think that poor working class children are intrinsically less bright than better off, middle class ones........

Martorana · 07/05/2014 21:07

For example, this year's year 7 at my dd's grammar school has no, that's no children who attract any sort of pupil premium funding al all.

Martorana · 07/05/2014 21:10

Sorry, posted to soon. In my ds's high school, the FSM figure is 37%.

HercShipwright · 07/05/2014 23:29

I was a poor working class child. I do not believe that poor working class children are intrinsically less bright than wealthy posh kids. I do believe that sometimes the die is cast by the age of 10 though and that more effort and resources should be put into primary education. But it seems a little churlish to put "" round the word top when it is anyway being qualified by referring to the results of a test - if there are no other criteria than getting a result in the top 25% of the marks to qualify for grammar school. If there are other criteria then obviously it's appropriate. But where I live, the kids with the 120 highest scores get into the grammar school. They may not be the cleverest kids, they may not be the nicest kids, they may not be the kids who will succeed the best in life, however you measure success. But they did get the top scores in the test. Putting a "" round that seems a little bit nasty, no?

Retropear · 08/05/2014 06:58

I agree re more resources in primary education.I also think more info and the offer of free transport for the poorest would get numbers up.

My dad was a dirt poor grammar educated kid who went a year early thanks to his strong primary education.He also cycled miles(free) to get there.

I suspect many don't apply who could and are put off by having to pay for transport after and simply thinking it isn't for them.I also think many think you have to have a private tutor when in reality more could do things with their kids themselves as many do.

I hate the way any thread re the 11+ ends up the same way.Op has asked for advice not a debate on ethics.