Free tutoring for the 11+ - or how to make the 11+ more meritocratic

[tryingreallytrying]

Thinking aloud...

I successfully tutored my own dc for the 11+ and have been approached many times to tutor other people's children (I'm a teacher, but not at this level, but frankly didn't find it difficult to get on top of requirements for the 11+).

I've always said no to doing any paid tutoring (though I've tutored a friend's child for free) - I know I could make lots of money doing this but strongly believe that grammar schools should not only be open to the children of those who can pay - much like it used to be when I went to grammar school myself.

I'd like to return to that situation - where 11+ exams are NOT tutored for. But in the absence of that, I'd like to ensure that 11+ exams are open to everyone, rich or poor, and that the poor are as well prepared for the exams as the rich.

I'm happy to offer my expertise - but can't afford to spend my time tutoring everyone who might want it for free, personally.

So how to achieve that goal? I've thought of creating materials, websites... Anyone else like to join with me in this? Got any other ideas?

Yes Mini that's what I think is the right number, broadly. You did ask :)

I'm not sure why you believe the 11+ is that crude actually. Around here most DC who seem very bright get in, most who try but aren't that bright don't. So it's not a bad tool at all in my view, though no doubt it could be improved - if the Admissions Code allowed for it that is.

Thanks. I was interested in the average A count for each DC actually. Not the points equivalent on the league table, but the actual average A count for each child. Just to get a handle on what you were saying about the tutoring/ peaking thing. I expect you don't want to say which subject you teach, which is of course entirely fair, but A* rates vary significantly between subjects nationally as you know so it's difficult to gauge much on one subject without knowing even what that one subject is.

Stillenact . What percentage does your school achieve at EBACC.

Average A is not something we discuss when analysing data. I teach music and have tracked my own subject across many other grammars including super selective, most A% are 10-30% in other local grammars. Even specialist music school like Cheethams and Purcell generally are around 40% A*. That's probably too subject specific for you though.

Do people with experience of the 11+ think that what stops parents tutoring their child at all, or effectively, is not knowing where to start?

Yes, I do think that is one of the problems with unfairness in the 11+.

There are plenty of motivated parents who are keen to support their children's education but don't really know how the grammar school system in their area works. It takes a lot of time researching and then doing the work if you are going to tutor your own child, and coaching a child in academic subjects is not something all parents can do well even when they try to.

I don't think children from state primary schools are disadvantaged compared to prep school children because of the lessons they each receive at school, I think they are disadvantaged because many primary schools don't support the 11+ at all. It makes a big difference if a child is encouraged both at school and at home instead of just at home.

I have heard of heads talking to parents and encouraging them to do the 11+, and I've heard of heads who tell their teachers not to even discuss with parents the possibility of their child doing 11+.

Parents need to be supported to support their children. Resources like the elevenplus forum are great, but can be very daunting for parents who are at the start of the 11+ journey, especially if they aren't well educated themselves.

gazza - absolutely. Am well aware of that, which is why I would never offer it on say the 11+ website.

hottiebottie - Re areas - I'd focus on my area, as that's my area (excuse the pun) of expertise; but I don't think 11+ exams actually do vary that much, really.

Minifingers - I'd say probably about 10%.

Thanks, WooWooOwl - that was my feeling, too.

FWIW, my dcs' head was one who actively advised against kids doing 11+ - told kids they'd fail and there was no point and she disapproved - they then went on to do very well and pass. So am well aware that state primaries are not always supportive and in fact the reverse can apply.

Compare this to a mum from my dcs' primary who moved her dcs to a prep in year 5. I met her recently and she said that for a year before the entrance exam, (a) the dcs did basically nothing but 11+ practice at school and despite that (b) nearly all the dcs got EXTRA paid tutoring outside school! Ridiculous.

Exactly what MrsRuffDiamond said.

We are in an 11+ area and I am paying a tutor because quite frankly! he is a much better teacher than me. My DS enjoys his sessions.

Not sure where the ! Came from. Not esp funny.

Taffeta - from my experience, "professional" tutors are rarely as effective as parents tutoring, for a whole heap of reasons. But good your dc enjoys the lessons.

Not so good for those dcs who can't afford tutors.

Stillenacht. It is obvious your school does not take EBACC that seriously because 70% A* A at Gcse is in the top 10 Grammar Schools in the country and yet 60% for EBACC is average for a Grammar school.

Soul2000 I don't personally give a flying hoot about the Ebacc as it's existence is killing my subject. I don't understand why it's such a make or break thing for you by the sounds of it. After all it's just for governmental figures.

Stillenacht. Are you not a Super Selective with those results Top 5% of ability range rather than a 25% or 30% one....

No. I am not prepared to discuss any more details about my place of work to be honest. We are not super selective. Remember I used the word 'around' in reference to percentages.

SORRY..... Stillenacht.....

Not my experience, op. I know about 50 parents that have used this tutor. Most of the people I know that have tutored their own children have oodles more patience, time and ability than me.

Stille do you think a quiet,bright,modest all rounder would cope at a non selective grammar,be happy? His brother is uber motivated this one is kind of average re motivation,not lazy,gets good results with minimal effort but he doesn't live to do school work or to get top marks.

He does what he needs to do quite easily.

< blatant hijack>

I support my DD and help her as much as I can, however she also goes to a tutor once a week. She is enjoying the tutoring very much and it has much improved her confidence and is also having a positive impact on her work at school.

As a parent, I felt somewhat overwhelmed at having to prepare DD for two different format 11+ exams. I found the 11+ forums frightening in terms of the sheer attention to detail and massive effort required from parents (honestly - comparing notes on not only which sort of pencil to use, but comparing brands ). The school had made it clear that DD had the potential to pass the 11+, but they couldn't offer us any further support or information. It is not done to discuss 11+ with other parents. So I felt very alone and I had nobody to bounce ideas off (even DH wasn't convinced that grammar was a good idea). The tutor is as much to support me and reassure me that we are working in (roughly) the right direction as it is for DDs benefit.

We are lucky to have some savings and some generous grandparents who are helping us out. If we had not had the ability to tutor, then I would have really appreciated some sort of forum to give me the confidence to believe that 11+ was a reasonable thing to encourage DD to do. So that I didn't feel intimidated by the complexities and the confidence of the richer parents.

I can cover the academic stuff myself (mostly) but I want/need to have my hand held so that I can present a calm, confident front to DD. I don't want her to feel that it is a bigger deal than it is, or to feel pressure not to let me down.

stillenacht believe me, you couldn't get too subject specific for me if you tried :)

Retropear I assume that non selective grammar was typed in error. Of course he can thrive and be happy if he gets in. Bear in mind he's a boy. They're much more likely to show the traits yours exhibits than a girl of the same age. Let him take the test and let him go if he gets in. He'll be fine.

MrsCakes - thanks, that chimes in with my experience and friends' experience. I think it's why tutors clean up in what is ultimately, just helping 10-year-olds get better at maths/English, largely, and develop some exam and study skills. Not really very hard...but those with a buck to make like to increase the mystique.

Actually, there is none. It's just about common sense, tackling holes in basic knowledge that primary schools should have covered (but some haven't) and teaching basic exam and study skills.

MrsCakes what year group is your DD in? It certainly sounds from what you're saying as though she hasn't yet sat and passed the 11+. Is she trying for a grammar in a grammar school area or is she trying for a superselective where it's rather more competitive to get in?

Please can I assure you that you've been somehow sucked in to the hype. No one needs savings coupled with grandparental support to get into a grammar. Indeed even that kind of blessed background won't guarantee a place, and nor should it.

All children who are properly schooled in maths and English in their primary years and who are in the top 25% in Kent type areas or in the top 5% in superselective areas should secure a place. There may be upsets at the margins, but only there.

I'm sorry to say it MrsCakes but you somehow personify the mystique. It's probably fair to say that mumsnet also personifies the mystique. The reality is, mercifully, that most kids who get into the few grammars that are left should be there, and most kids who don't get in shouldn't be there. Unfortunately the sad fact is that far too few bright but not well off kids apply, in great part because of this notion that it's a middle class preserve and requires an injection of money for tutoring to succeed. That in itself is toxic.

I find it interesting that mumsnet is so big on equality in other areas but so small on equality on education. It smacks of humbug I have to say, protecting one's own. The forum really does seem to run scared of merit in terms of access to educational opportunity, but I'm not sure quite why it should. If anyone can shed light, that would be great :)

ds passed his 11+ last sept. he should be on track for a grammar place, we will know for sure on 3rd March.
It is super selective area.

I tutored him. Dh and I firmly believed that if we had to tutor him hard, then it probably wasn't right for him anyway.
So, his test was just VR (I disagree with you OP about all tests being similar)
We did familiarization with the different question types, and then timed tests to improve speed. He did a couple of complete past papers.

He is bright, but not super bright, but we are a reading and talking family, lots of discussion, wide vocab etc.

On the day of the test I was shocked at some of the parents, testing them on vocab until the last minute, pressure, pressure. We clearly told ds, he needed to take is seriously and give it his best shot, we believed that it would be a great school for him, but if he didn't pass, it wasn't the end of the world, there were other options.

I think any parent can do what we did. The point is though, that the parents that can't, the ones with poor education themselves, or English second language, are the ones whose kids would probably benefit from some tutor help, and they are the kids who are probably also not getting the wide vocab, reading support etc.