The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt2

[LadyMuck]

Anyone still out there?!

That was a reply to Farewell!

Farewelltoarms, despite the great amount of angst shown on these threads, in my experience there are often no great surprises as to who gets what where etc. It is obviously harder for those coming from a one form state primary to work out where their dc comes in the great pecking order, and it will be easier when Gove has his way to put each child in their appropriate centile (or is it a decatile - they were 10% bands), but it isn't hugely random, and at the end of the day yes, it is about "businesses" regardless or not of whether they are run for profit.

I really do feel that I have visited almost every secondary school in the South East, but in terms of my 6 closest state secondary schools:-

1. the nearest is a school which selects on a faith that I don't adhere to;
2. the next selects based on primary feeder schools (all of which we were rejected by on the basis of distance), also distance (we're at the edge), also 10% by a selective test (though that group is then spread throughout the school, so there is no advantage in being selected).
3. the next selects on distance, and we live too far
4. the next wanted ds to sit a test in December which would put him into one of 9 bands and then they select from each band randomly by lottery. 5&6) are both faith schools, though we might meet their faith criteria depending on how many points we tot up and how compelling my ministers reference is.

So whilst I may feel that the decision as to whether my son brings a family photo or a 2 foot trophy to an interview shouldn't have any impact of whether or not he gets a secondary school place, I have to say that I don't find great comfort in the state school allocation process either. Especially as I can go through the above list and realise that actually ds has no guarantee at all (in fact only has a remote chance) of getting into one of our nearest 6 secondary state secondary schools. And that is without me making any assessment at all of the features or specialisms of those schools, whether ds would thrive there or not, and what is going to happen given the chronic shortage of spaces and cuts to funding....

Whilst I will happily stick 2 fingers up at any school which dares to reject my baby, I am grateful that my neighbours go through the same angst as otherwise I would be wondering about how I have missed the wonderful comp at the end of my road. I will never trust another estate agent though....

JustAnother - it's really not a fabulous comprehensive, in fact it feels like a grim cross between a call centre and a borstal in places, but the well-supported children who go there come out speaking in lovely voices with great GSCEs. The headline figures for GSCE passes are v poor, I'm just trying to dig down to children who seem not dissimilar to my own.

LadyMuck, I entirely sympathise. Any form of selection be it faith, money, academic ability, specialism, seems to force parents into an awful frenzy because they're putting up their child for potential rejection. Which is a horrible position to be put in.

There just seems something almost abusive about the private school process. The way it's made so awful that you feel pathetically grateful to be offered the chance to give them a six-figure sum.

Honestly I don't know what I'm going to do next year. I've no idea how academic my son (in two-form entry primary, v high FSM) is. Hate having to even ask myself that question.

PS sorry that I'm de-railing your v lovely supportive thread about schools I live absolutely nowhere near!

farewell you've made a good point however the hysteria associated with south London schools is understandable given the lack of secondary places and the difficulty getting into these as outlined by ladymuck. I would have loved a place at our local primary but did not get a place at ANY state primary until third round of allocation by which time we had decided to go private. There is no way I could have entered the secondary lottery for state schools after that experience. You are very lucky to have local state schools that have spaces available for local people but that is not the case in this area.

The question of how much you can gauge from relative position in state primary (not that they tell you, but you can kind of work it out) is one I have been grappling with too. DD is in an Outstanding primary, two form entry, quite a 'nice' area - and if she was clearly top of the top there I think I'd be fairly relaxed. From reading quite a few of these threads I think the people who really go through it are the ones like us whose DC is pretty good, one of the better ones where she is, but not so much that her exams are going to wow anyone. I too do wonder why we put ourselves, and her, through it all...

Really can't stress how much I'm not judging you for your anxiety. You all come across as lovely and full of self knowledge. Which is why I asked the question, because I know it's something I might have to grapple with next year and I'm wondering how you all manage to reconcile your own evident sanity with the insanity of the process.

ClaraMaugham that's pretty much a description of DS. I think I'm just trusting that the process will weed him out if it needs to weed him out - sounds brutal, but I don't want him in a school that isn't suited to him.

My feeling is that there are insufficient schools that set a gentler standard, like St Benedict's. I'd like to see much more choice there. Really, the choices were St B's or Emanuel; Ibstock felt too dainty, and Harrodian doesn't have a wide enough social mix. Admittedly, we didn't go to look at Portland Place or Hall School in Wimbledon.

Farewelltoarms the answer is, you either hope that the Mumsnet thread in 2015 is like this one, or you keep yourself entirely ignorant of the competitiveness of the process and off social media. Sadly, that latter ship seems to have sailed for you!

mummyinatizz Sounds as if the interview went well. They wouldn't invite him in if there wasn't a degree of interest, and to see how he would do. Whitgift do tend to put a lot of faith into their reasoning test, on the basis that if the basic intellect is there then they will provide good teaching for the rest.

MrsSteptoe I absolutely agree. Where are the 'realistic' schools? Good, nurturing, high standards but not full of dauntingly top achievers? While we're on the subject, where did all these uber-bright children come from? Are there really enough of them to fill all these schools?

I know there is a lot of stress about this process but does anyone know of a child in previous years who didn't get a place anywhere? I have yet to meet one, but I really only know about children from our primary.

I think our school (indie) is very good at managing expectations and making clear which schools are unsuitable for which children. I gather the state schools don't have as much input into this sort of thing but would imagine this is where a good tutor would help?

I do know of quite a few stressed parents in previous years who ended up with offers from every school their dc sat and you do have to wonder if they got a bit frazzled over nothing....

Thanks ladymuck let's hope we prove my glass-half-empty DH wrong.
You've been invaluable on this thread, take a bow/curtesy.

Mrssteptoe - what about Royal Russell? I haven't looked myself but friends think it offers a gentler approach. And I do hear good things about the Hall.

MrsS and ClaraM. I thought W was supposed to be that school: with the massive spread of ability. Not wanting to dis those bright boys who are also sporty, but am I wrong in thinking that they will forgo some elements of academics for boys that are, say county standard and so on, leading to a big spread in ability. Perhaps I'm wrong and even the most sporty need to be the same standard as the rest.

ladyDepp I do know of quite a few stressed parents in previous years who ended up with offers from every school their dc sat and you do have to wonder if they got a bit frazzled over nothing....

Yes - you can see how that happens. You just don't know (from state sector) where to pitch the DCs. Yes, we can read here and see there is some sort of hierarchy in selectivity, but how can you tell. If you look at Westminster Under for eg (possibly the most selective at 11+), it says you only need the boy to be at level 5 , but half the DCs in my very ordinary inner city state primary will be at that level by the end of year 6!

Just yes that's exactly the problem we have. Nothing to judge by, and then you run the risk of putting them in for schools they have no hope of getting into.

I don't know anything about W I'm afraid, apart from what I've read here (it sounds rather lovely). I think maybe there are some girls' schools that fit the 'realistic' model but they are too far from where we live. With the ones nearby it seems they're either aspirational or true fallbacks with much lower academic standards.

ladydepp we had a big upset with one of ds's closest friends 2 years ago, who got to interview stage at T & W as well as another and didn't get an offer from any and has had to try again at 13+. We also have friends who didn't get W or T at 10+ but did at 11+ And certain of the prep schools have streams for those who didn't make the cut at 11+ but try again for 13+. Ds has been a relatively late developer (though thankfully just in time for the 11+) and I have to say that we had identified his 13+ prep option should it have come to that. In one sense, if you cast your net sufficiently wide then yes, you should get a place somewhere, but you are looking for the best school for the child, not just the one with the lowest entry bar.

In terms of ds's friend, I do think that in part he failed to get his place due to lack of confidence on the part of the parents. In one sense that is why forums like this are so valuable - once you realise that not everything is necessarily cut and dried, and there are deals to be done, or other options to explore, it can help you decide how best to progress. 7 or 8 years ago I would say most parents didn't even think about questioning a school decision, whereas this time round I almost feel sorry for some of the admissions teams .

There are certainly more parents who are looking at awards as seeing "how much does this school want my child", and in the last few years it has gone to a whole new negotiating level. Unfortunately I think that this could end up backfiring on some of the children themselves, as there is a sense that their awards are down to the canniness of the parents rather than the talents and abilities of the children. 7 years is a long time to carry the weight of a scholarship if in fact you had a lucky break or shrewd parents at the time of application. Bizarrely I still remember the girl who got a 50% academic scholarship in my year at school, but was at best in 2nd quartile throughout. Equally I remember the girl who didn't get a scholarship yet always came top! I am surprised at how much it is all discussed at school, but I guess no real change from 30 odd years ago or more.

And so far these threads have been focussing on the relative merits or slowness of school admission and communication process. The thread will have a different feel post 14 February as offers get weighed up. A visit to a school once you have been offered a place has a very different feel from an open day.

Found you guys again on this thread... It's a cracker. So confirmed Alleyns interview on Saturday. Really unfair but slightly disappointed its not a scholarship interview.

I fell so mean even thinking like this..he has done so well

no letter again today ....have almost given up hope as understand last letters went out midweek have resolved to call admissions tomorrow its ridiculous keep people hanging on like this GRrrrrrr fingers crossed for reeds I guess .....

Hi there, we had a 10+ interview with the Canon today- seemed to go fairly well but was just wondering whether there is any significance in who interviews the child? Friends have had the Heads of Dept's , does this mean that they are more in line to receive a scholarship?

sorry, should have said 10+ interview at Whitgift...

I assume that the canon wasn't interviewing ds too?!

Dibble, greetings! Have to say when I see the number of girls with scholarship interviews at Alleyns I was starting to wonder whether they had a policy in not warning boys as to the nature of their interview! Mind you when I asked ds out of all the papers he had sat which would he like the chance to do again, he did name the Alleyns English comprehension as the one he would like another crack at. I'm assuming their English paper lived up to its reputation!

Hello all - handholding needed please! I really messed up today. Sent DS and DH off for Art Scholarship assessment at W only to discover it had been on Tuesday. I have no idea why I thought it was Thursday - I was 100% certain but checked the letter and it very clearly says Tuesday 21st.
Lovely people at admissions booked him back in to do the assessment next week with someone else who was sick. They were really helpful but can't help feeling like I've completely messed up as it really doesn't look good does it? Art is DSs 'thing' and he has worked so hard on his portfolio.