SW London girls' schools 11+ thread 2014

[MinesACuppa]

Who else?

Ok . Anyone who doesn't know a soul with a dd sitting at G and L who wants a coffee somewhere at 9 ish pm me. I hate shopping so will not be going to Westfield but will probably be in a pret or similar as not worth going home. Hope you are controlling your nerves better than I am.Feeling bad here as had not realised until this week how hard and how tough this is especially as dd s school hasn't even done practice SATs stuff yet.

stressedofstreatham, just curious about how you are thinking of DD's travel, assuming your username is reflective of where you are. We absolutely loved G&L, but had to dismiss it because I didn't know how she'd do it everyday. SPGS is doable because it's a 10min walk from Kensington Olympia, but I couldn't crack G&L from SW London unless you are next to Clapham Junction.

Now I am thinking that may be we should have sat for G&L and City. I thought City was too far even though directly on the Northern line. It's really tricky with West London schools in terms of transport from this neck of the woods, I am now worrying that we haven't cast our net wide enough...

Could I please pick collective mumsnet brain on what's doable from SW16, 17, 18 in terms of schools? I am wondering if I missed something

Girls
SPGS (barely and only if you are next to a train station)
WHS
Putney High
JAGS
Streatham and Clapham
Francis Holland
City of London (if next to Northern Line tube)

Co-ed
Alleyn's
Emanuel
Kingston Grammar

Schools dismissed as too far or fiddly to get to:
Latymer Upper
Godolphin & Latymer
Ibstock Place
LEH

What else is out there?

if near to clapham lots more choice to go to Sutton high surbiton highhigh Croydon high even Guildford high (i am told apparently) Leh has bus from Wimbledon. Playing blame game too as wish I had consdidered leh now. Am sure all the dds will get in somewhere. Do you have other children to sort out.

Thanks for responses on distance, ladies - especially Basildon, v helpful.

And sounds exactly like dd's situation, unfortunately. Public transport not school bus, she loves the school, 5 min walk to bus and direct to school door but the 33 goes all over the place so takes ages

Irisha, LEH shares a school bus route with Hampton and they pick up from all round. Worth checking the route before deciding if it's too fiddly. They pick up in Sheen, Putney, Barnes.

You should take into account whether there will be other girls / boys travelling to the school from your area. A difficult journey shared isn't so bad and I know at SPGS you will get pupils from a wide area. The schools will tell you where pupils travel from. The more selective the bigger the catchment. SPGS told me that they actually will ask parents to not apply if they believe that the journey will adversely affect studies. They had offered a place to a girl from Windsor on the basis she was moving but the parents had never actually moved and they were clearly unhappy about that. I'm not sure why G&L is so much worse a journey than SPGS, it's a 5 - 10 min walk further max?

LEH actually had all the pupils mapped out. There were outliers in Guildford, Streatham, Wandsworth etc. but who wants to be the one girl who gets up at the crack of dawn to drive / catch a bus to catch the LEH/ Hampton bus. And more to the point as a parent are you ready to be the one driving them to playdates, parties etc. LEH organise the classes geographically as far as they can but their catchment is very much focused on Ealing Hanwell Chiswick Putney Barnes Sheen Richmond Twickenham Wimbledon New Malden Cobham Woking Windsor Weybridge etc etc (where the buses stop, there's a map I seem to remember that stretches further into Surrey than into London IYSWIM ) Do you want to be dropping and picking up from those places to service your DDs social life?

The (slightly) less selective schools tend to have a more concentrated catchment and so it is a bit less of an issue, as is what you do about getting home after extra curricular activities. LEH/ Hampton run some late buses but not sure where to.

I personally am not convinced that what the most selective schools have to offer justifies a difficult journey that day in day out will be tiring and resented, unless they are offering something extra curricular eg the sport at LEH that is important to your DD and they won't get the same opportunities elsewhere. All these schools will give bright girls the same academic opportunities to get A/ A*, choice of unis etc. The most selective get the best results simply because they are more selective.

We chose the schools we applied to on the basis of journey - not necessarily length of time, but complication factor (i.e. not having to change). Lucky in that there are quite a few good schools near by, but there are loads we had to rule out...

Irisha - I'm with shootingpigeons on this - we're sw16 and didn't go for SPGS because no matter how fabulous the school it just can't be worth that journey every week day for 7 years - having to get up extra early for swim squad or choir before school, never getting home before dark in the winter, and the vast majority of your friends living the other side of London

Yes, it gets fabulous results but so it should given its intake - frankly those girls could go to Sinksville comp and still come out with a string of A*s

One of ds1's friends went to City up to GCSE but left for sixth form despite enjoying the school because the journey from SW17 was too much

From sw16/17 I'd say only JAGS,Alleyn's, SCHS, WHS (depending on how close to station) are close enough to be bearable

If you're close to Clapham Junction your options are a bit wider and from earlsfield/Wandsworth PHS should be doable

Anything north of the river is too far, as is west London, plus Croydon unless you're in the very southernmost tip of sw16

Ds1 goes to a school which is a relatively easy journey by train but a bit of a nightmare by car - parents' evenings, performances, sports fixtures etc are all that much trickier to get to and you have to be sure that none of your local options would have been just as good to make the journey worthwhile

After much deliberation, we excluded LEH. DD was really tired after SPGS exam, LEH was next day so we didn't sit. They were very understanding and offered an alternative date, but it doesn't walk. I think being dependent on school bus only is tricky and even that picks up from Wimbledon, which you still need to get to from Wandsworth. Getting there for matches, parents evenings from Central London would be a pain for me too. So we won't sit alternative date after all.

I think G&L would have been doable, but it's at Hammersmith whereas SPGS is an easy walk from Kensington Olympia. It's probably only a difference of 10-15 min, but SPGS already would be 40-45min door to door from Wandsworth Commonj whereas G&L would push the journey up to an hour. I don't know... Too late now, anyway.

Are there any schools that I just missed from my list? (We didn't apply to all of them, but these are the ones I am aware of).

I was at school with someone who went from Wandsworth Common to Hammersmith every day. Still don't know how she did it.

basildonbond, thanks a lot for your perspectives.

We are more SW17/Wandsworth Common/Balham rather than Clapham Junction. SPGS is the only one we ended up applying to from West London. I totally agree that fabulousness of the school cannot make up for the years of misery, but SPGS appealed by their emphasis on individual - e.g., no houses, no uniform, as they said in open day "our girls are incredibly difficult to parent because they always have their own opinion..." That's very much my DD. She is not a compliant conformist who wants to please for the sake of pleasing. She is not a rebel, far from it, but she needs to be genuinely interested in what she is doing and/or inspired by the teacher to apply herself. May be, all this SPGS talk is sales pitch and bears no resemblance to reality but will deal with it if it's relevant. I think it's a bit of a long shot.

JAGS was OK, but I am a bit surprised by the fact they interview before exam, i.e. this is not art of selection procedure. So do they just look at pure numerical outcome of exams when making offers? That is not very compatible with the whole independent school ethos of looking at individual strengths and weaknesses, etc. May be, I am over thinking this. My DD is somewhat quirky, not sure JAGS is the best place for that.

Alleyn's was fine.

We didn't like WHS and Putney High.

Streatham and Clapham and Emanuel just don't seem to get the results. I know they are less selective, but they are still selective so should be doing a lot better with their intakes, I think.

Doesn't leave much else locally...

I should add that DDs ended up at a school (I am, probably vainly, trying not to out myself ) that was a couple of miles and a public busride away, on paper perfect, but the service was terrible. It managed to take 40 mins to cover the couple of miles and in the morning buses wouldn't turn up, or didn't stop, and they were both often late as a result. Most teachers understood and didn't make it an issue as plenty were affected but come sixth form DD1 got the old bag who was a stickler (based her style on Miss Jean Brodie and sadly didn't regard all those hard working Science geeks and would be medics as the crème de la crème ) for punctuality, at least for those who were not the creme de la crème. The crème could happily linger in the sixth form common room nursing their hangovers, and lurch in late looking like zombies and she would just titter (Teachers like this are not a school specific problem, you can encounter them, along with the uber cool manipulative madams anywhere)

Now my other DD is at a school that is a slightly longer train ride away, but it is quicker and comparatively very reliable, and she is early everyday.

Worth road testing the public transport.

We also couldn't be happier with a school that is further down the silly tables but she is happier, is doing better academically and has a much better social life.

Irisha, I don't understand what you mean about the interview not being part of the selection process because it comes before the exams. JAGS aren't the only ones to do it; Putney, Wimbledon and Sutton also do so. I understand that the interview is looked upon as part of the selection process but that a great interview will not make up for a poor result in the exams.

MinesACuppa, I guess whether an interview is part of the selection process or not is partially to semantics. Our prep head told us explicitly that if a school interviews all candidates before the exams, it's more of "put a face to the file" rather than to differentiate candidates, i.e. those schools will offer to the highest ranking candidates in the exams and will only look at interview files if something doesn't add up or, e.g., an outlier type performance on maths, let's say 95%, but only 60% on the English - then they might look at the interview file. They don't even look at head's report too much (again according to our prep) - it's more to check for any issues with discipline, attendance, etc rather than read the glowing account of extra-curricular achievement, etc. They might use it to when dealing with waiting list, etc.

Schools that interview post exam make it clear that interview is quite important and they only call back those who can do well in the school academically, given exam performance, so exam more a qualifying thing.

Of course, that's broad brush strokes. Let's say if SPGS/LEH etc makes 120 offers, they'll probably make offers to top 50-60 scorers regardless of interview (as long as it's not a total screw up) but for the next scorers, they might use interview and head report more.

JAGS headmistress was pretty explicit that the interview is not really part of selection and they offer to top 120 scorers. They will look at outliers though with brilliant performance on one paper but mediocre on the other and might use interview/head's report then - as long as mediocre papers is still passable.

WHS was pretty explicit too about using interview only for borderline cases.

Don't know about PHS or Sutton as we haven't looked at those.

All of these schools are much of a muchness with results...if you have a super bright/ hardworking child they really are going to get the top academic results at any of these schools. It really has so much more to do with the 'feel' of each school and what fits best with your daughter and family preferences.

For every person who loves a certain school there will be someone who really doesn't like it (very interested to know why Irisha didn't like WHS and Putney which seem to be considered highly desirable in my neck of the woods)

Hope everyone's DDs get in to the school where they fit best and will be happy ??. I have known girls that were accepted at supposedly more 'academic' schools who didn't get places in others considered 'less academic'...others getting scholarship offers from 'top' Indies who didn't get offered a grammar school place. It is sometimes a very inexplicable process!

I see what you mean, Irisha. I'd rather have it that way round than have to wait to hear about an interview though! Apparently Surbiton don't interview at all.

Well I can quote the former, before the currently retiring, Head of LEH saying " we have so many good applicants, and each year more, that it feels almost impossible to choose. It is always a relief after the interviews because they tell you a lot" I also know that they set a minimum attainment in the exams but then it is all about the strengths and weaknesses. It is definitely not first past the post because they will also look not just at interview and reference but also VR versus attainment, and how they answered the questions, silly mistakes but solving the more difficult problems that require lateral thinking versus accuracy but not being able to attempt those more complex questions.

DDs did feel that the less selective the school the more straightforward the paper. I don't know if the a science comprehension is still part of the SPGS paper but certainly DD didn't have the knowledge to confirm she had sort of arrived at the right conclusion from analysing the data until she was studying A level.

Schmedz, I didn't like WHS for a few reasons - some objective, some subject, some almost petty.

At an interview day, which also doubled as a tour of the school, we were made to wait for the beginning of the speech in the corridor which was cold and drafty rather than the amphitheater. They said in the letter that Headmistress and Deputy Head along with other staff would be on hand before the speech to answer questions - none there. So just cold huddle for 20 min.

They don't teach Latin in Yr7, only start in Yr8. I don't get it. All the other schools of similar academic caliber do. Given that DD is studying it now and loving it, seemed that it would be a waste to miss Yr7 to then start from scratch again.

They teach science on a carousel principle for two years (Yr7-Yr8), i.e. one term of Biology, then one term of Physics, then one term of Chemistry rather than three sciences concurrently as it's done everywhere else and which seems the logical thing to do. I can get a combined Science course for Yr7 (not carousel though), but the stuff they do I just don't get.

Lab sessions for Science are done in full rather than half-classes, the latter being the norm for other independents we've visited.

I had questions about the rationale of the things above, but (contrary again to the letter we were sent) there was no one to answer them at the end of the tour. Only a marketing director who didn't have a clue and kept repeating "it seems to work for us". It may, it may not - the current Headmistress is leaving after a relatively short tenure before we can see results of the cohorts that were recruited under her leadership.

Issues with cafeteria - sixth former who took as around told us that very few in years 9 upwards use it - small, crowded, you do get priority as a sixth former, but many people choose to bring packed lunch or go out and grab sandwiches.

Art studios smallish and a bit dinghy. Ditto for library - I wouldn't want to spend time there.

So all in all, was distinctly underwhelmed.

PHS was much more of an intangible feeling - seemed a bit cookie-cutter, transactional, I can't put my finger on it...But since it's not particularly convenient for us, I didn't explore it further and was happy to leave it a gut feeling level rather than hound them with questions.

Shootingatpigeons, yes, science comprehension is still part of the exams for SPGS (although I would say it's now more"non-fiction comprehension" than "science"). DD enjoyed it a lot actually - kept talking about it for two days. She did leave some questions out though, but I think it's a brilliant way to test the actual thinking skills, intellectual curiosity, etc. I think it gives a chance to shine for girls who are more in the camp of "lots of careless errors but great lateral thinkers."

So... who did the exam today and what did your DD think? The girls I've spoken to seem very upbeat, but I think it's as much to do with the Kitkats in the break as the exam itself...

Mine sat the exam at Godolphin and was most excited by the small stuffed dolphins they handed out (SPGS didn't hand out stuffed animals...)

Yes mine too! Great touch, although presumably it just sits there mocking you if you don't get in...

I know someone who went to Croydon High who lived in Streatham so it must be doable. Three separate sciences taught from the get go. She was quite quirky so maybe they are good at quirky and perhaps that mitigated the journey. Do take into account, whatever school, is the homework. If your kid is getting home after over an hour's journey and then has two hours of homework they are more of a disadvantage than the child who lives round the corner. Also, if they are sporty and get back from fixtures later that either means you driving to get them or a much later commute.k

Just to say that I had changed my user name (as lots of you have)as people IRL dont get this whole 11 plus thing, so in fact that the journey would be an easy one for dd or even easier if we could move even further over that way (to a shoe box!) but decided to stick with it for this thread. Roses I've only just noticed your spelling changes sometimes! Sorry I missed the two of you that pmed me -phone recpetion was poor so hope you enjoyed a coffee somewhere. irisha really sorry that this thread has been 'on diversion' over transport but glad too as it helps people decide. Also a common theme I think is that we all have some clarity and wish we had put in one different oor other school in the mix ,as Heads have left or will be leaving KGS and WHS and our perceptions of the journey may well be different after today. For us it was quicker than expected but anyone in any doubt about relying on a train read the panic on the boys thread re Balham this morn. The line was up the creek most of the day. Also every time there is a signal failure on one route it screws up the other routes so little dds with hockey sticks and flute cases etc might struggle to get on. Irisha you are right there are many schools that are fiddly to get to! SOS