The Trinity-Whitgift-South London school 10+/11+ thread of 2014

[Ladymuck]

A few days early I know, but most of the entrance exams will be out of the way in a fortnight or so, and I'm sure there are a number of us who are in need of or or as we watch our (still very little) boys forget everything that they may have learned over the last couple of years. And there are many veterans of the process who will hopefully be around to reassure us that we will all come through this unscathed.

If by Foundation you mean the Whitgift foundation I certainly know of lots of boys who have had offers from both W + T, my DS included. Things may change this year, but I think it unlikely. They may be part of the same Foundation but there is lots of competition between the two and surely each will want the best candidates for their own school.

No, there aren't any parental interviews, just a small group meeting with Dr Spence as Justanotherusername says, and at which he does all the talking. There is certainly no attempt to ascertain if DC is a parent's first choice. Neither is there a Foundation agreement not to offer more than one school-my DS received offers from DC and Alleyn's.
I wonder if it's something to do with geographical location? Particularly for those living in and around Dulwich and further east, getting to some of those other schools you mention may be a problem? And it is seen by many parents as a 'big name' school-I know we had quite a few surprised reactions when we turned down a scholarship there. Plus, I think they have become increasingly good at marketing themselves of late with taster days etc. And Joe Spence seems to have a very good reputation.

It's only 70 places, not 80. That's part of your answer, unfortunately for those of us doing DC...

Do you mean hoover up late applicants in March who passed grammar school exams but didn't get a place, thus leapfrogging those who didn't get a place through 11+? I can see that working for the school, but it would be a heck of a gamble for the parents - surely if you're prepared to pay private school fees, then you'd put your kids through 11+ in January and just reject the place if you get a place at a grammar, not leave it till March and hope that DC will have some places left for late applicants. I'm pretty new to this process, though, so maybe you're right...

Sorry, that's not entirely clear. What I should have written was:
Do you mean hoover up late applicants in March who passed grammar school exams but didn't get a place, thus leapfrogging those who didn't get a DC place through the January sitting of the 11+?

I thought Dulwich/Alleyns/JAGS were part of the same charitable foundation, similar to Whitgift/Trinity/Old Palace.

Perhaps geography is the answer. But, as with W & T, wouldn't most locals sit both, which is presumably why Alleyns gets close to 600 applicants (as it picks up both boys and girls). If you had offers from both Dulwich and Alleyns then presumably there are reasons as to why you might opt for Alleyns over Dulwich, especially if you had a dd. It's the local overlap that confuses me.

Perhaps they know they can make up the numbers at 13?

In terms of W/T, I guess the perception of a local high birth year was always expected to push up numbers, so perhaps people don't want to risk it. We're certainly keeping the option of approaching some schools in March open, but mainly as part of a "oh heck!" strategy...

Yes, LM, certainly they refer to a Foundation bus (not a very elegant way of proving it!) in the prospectus so I can only assume that there is a common foundation.

Can I pick your collective brains about something that I am getting increasingly stressed about. For various reasons W is our last choice (mainly, because DC and City are more convenient). Assuming he scores highly enough in W, will the fact that we have applied also for other schools (they asked the question and we answered truthfully) that might be considered more aspirational (or are obviously on our address more convenient) put us out of the running for W.

It was supposed to be our safe (or safest bet) - but now I'm not sure! (No disrepect to W, we like that too and I know (now, at least) that it is on an academic par with DC. Just not very convenient compared to the more central options.)

I get the sense from the discussion on this thread that the schools do not want to make offers to DSs that they think will not accept them.
My fear is that he “passes” W (but then not interviewed/offered on the basis of our other applications) but then fails (or mumbles through interviews) for the others – and we are left with nothing.

Clearly – if interviewed for W (where I know that that they do interview parents), DH and I will wax lyrical about how it is our favourite school. But we might not get that far (on the above basis) or not be believed!

I am actually wondering whether not to bother with W at all now.

Am I over-worrying? Do any of you know about DS that have had offers from Whitfgift as well as a City, a DC, a Kings or a Westminster and so on...

Yes - all a common foundation. JAGS as well. Founded by same guy (like Mr W down down in croydon).

Justanother I have definitely heard that Whitgift hate not being your first choice, and tend to spot the "you are a back up" strategy.
But presumably if they were only prepared to offer to families where they were very confident that they were the first choice, then they wouldn't be able to keep up their impressive academic standards (on the basis that there wouldn't be sufficient intersection between definite Whitgift first choice and most desirable boys). They must take a couple of punts on families where they're not certain they're first choice.

I have definitely heard that Whitgift hate not being your first choice, and tend to spot the "you are a back up" strategy.

With one DS already at T, it must have been blindingly obvious that T was I first choice for DS1. In the parent interview I did say I was happy with the idea of boys at different schools but I would have thought it obvious that our first choice was to have them both at T. W still offered DS2 a scholarship.

JustAnotherUserName, certainly the perception was historically that that was the case - no point in applying to W as a "back up", hence I'm interested to see how Dulwich do things as such a slim offer ratio may be down to some sort of similar policy.

But Whitgift have had the relative shock factor of no longer being the most popular boys school locally. During the 80s/early 90s there seemed to a perception that it would always be Whitgift 1st choice with Trinity as back up unless you were very musical. Mark Bishop has changed that considerably, and Trinity seems to have made considerable headway in terms of becoming the preferred boys school locally.

I don't think that your application is a wasted one by any means, and certainly if you got as far as interview, didn't get an offer, but needed a place (because your other schools didn't offer), then I would suggest talking to the school. If you haven't been through this before then you may have the perception that everything will be settle on 14th February or 3rd March or whenever, but the reality is there will be movements on places and scholarships right up to the end of this term and beyond. Stress not therefore, or at least stress at a level that you can maintain until Easter!

And, if they checked family history, they would have seen we turned down W in favour of T for DS1.

There we are, then - I'm sure they do try to work out if they're being sat as a back-up, but clearly it's not a deal-breaker in every case, which should be good news for Justanother!

And with the state schools for us, apparently things can still change by July - we're not expecting to know for sure what the outcome will be for us till early summer at least, as there have been cases of places being offered at the London Oratory and CVMS as late as July. Though having put DS through all the exams, it'll be difficult to say to him that he's got a place at LO/CVMS so we'd rather send him there. Not sure we would, but we'd have to think about it.

Phew. to all..... but not sure I can cope with the idea of stressing til Easter.

I know children from 2 years ago who were offered places at Dulwich and Whitgift, some chose Dulwich and some chose Whitgift. From that, I don't think Whitgift do see themselves as a less aspirational choice. For many they are first choice, even over DC.

My DS prefers the Dulwich schools, I do worry that in interview he will not seem keen enough on W. I can wax lyrical about the school, not sure he can though! He has been to the sports and science camps so hopefully that will demonstrate his keenness if he does get an interview.

I also have a friend who turned down Alleyn's for her dd, 2 years later her ds was asked in interview why his sister didn't take the place. He said she preferred a girls' school, he was offered a place but chose DC. She has a third dc and is not sure if Alleyn's will have a long enough memory if she decides to go for the hat trick! (she likes Alleyn's a lot but her dc's preferred single sex schools). Her third dc is very young so I reckon she will be ok!

Surely the interviewers understand that some kids simply won't really have a preference among the various schools? DS is just not mature enough to differentiate, frankly. He just wants to know where he's going and hopes it'll have a Lego club.

I'm more worried about Ds as he does have a favourite.

They're all still going to school somewhere next year. Or at least, I'm not home schooling!

I know. I just don't want it to be the state school that the local authority gives us because he doesn't get any of the states on his CAF. All his CAF choices are oversubscribed, and the schools that the LA chooses for kids who don't get lucky with their CAF choices are the undersubscribed ones. It's simply not an option.

Home schooling DS2 would have been the end of either me or him :o

DS2's first choice would have been W but, had they asked about this at interview, they would have found out it was because he wanted a legitimate reason to hate his brother. I can only assume they didn't ask too deeply!

SoupDragon