Education superclass?

[Amber2]

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100245274/it-is-much-worse-than-sir-john-major-says-a-new-superclass-is-being-created-in-london/

This is interesting coming from John Major ...sounds like more lobbying along the lines of the Sutton Trust but do people really think it's much worse than it ever has been..? and this is do with with the inexorable rise of London...and the global money flowing in there...and so to creating an elite superclass of private schools also ...not just any old private school but a small handful of elite ones, applications to which have reached record numbers, presumably more and more from London and from overseas with over inflation rises in fees pricing out the traditional middle classes that used to be able to afford these schools.

I worked for one of the top accountancy firms that offered training more to kids from inner city schools and nobody I worked with had gone in because of parents. I left uni in the last recession (early 90s) with no jobs and really the only ones that got jobs then were through their parents including me. First job with my mother. Not all finance people were Dads. My sister had to do unpaid work for two years to break into TV and then act as low paid runner for more years so it really was difficult then but far more in Manchester now rather than London so cheaper for interns. For graduates we do psych testing to see who copes better under stress with numerical and literacy testing. Law may be one if the hardest to get into and advertising but banking and accountancy are no longer the domain of the wealthy. My cousin is a hedge fund manager from a wc background (now in London) and generally most of the investment consultancies and recruiting based on degree grade and not background. If atg in finance it is far more a meritocracy. Dcs need plenty if work experience though as well as good grades and better to shelf stack then to not do atg at all. All the languages students are still popular as it is as much about being open to new cultures and the ability to be open to working abroad. State schools do produce language students though. I work in a multinational environment and all business done in English but need to understand French as a lot of correspondence by email is in French. As a result I would encourage languages with DCs and preferably French, German or Spanish although ability to be able to understand all three in writing is the best as it will help with other countries in Europe that are similar and Latin America plus parts of Africa. Russian may be useful too.

Btw I drive an old Nissan. Cars are just a waste of money for me would rather have good holidays. I don't live in London but work there a couple of days a week and need to work there if I want to earn the big bucks but happier being just over an hour away by train with affordable nice housing and good state schools. A lot of people commute from here every day and may be easier for my dcs for low paid internship jobs. Increasingly though most of my relatives (there are lots - big Irish family) are all working in London. Although not the engineers who travel around a lot. Unfortunately to get the best jobs you have to live in commuter distance. Have no desire to move there though. Our FD commutes from York every day. Just live near a good station and your DCs can benefit if they want that kind of job.

If you are from an immigrant background or even Irish you have a family background of moving. My family has always just moved where the work is which was strange for me marrying into a Black Country family who thought moving 50 miles was emigrating! Being flexible is as good a resource for kids to inherit as spending all your money on a super elite school IMO.

Interestingly Prince William's friend and god-father once called on me as he was working for an investment bank. Super posh schooling but as far as I am aware he did not last long. Now increasingly the posh accents are being replaced with German, cockney, manc and I no longer see the procession of public school boys that I did in the 90s. With London now being a multi-cultural - third biggest French city! the public school influence if atg seems to be reducing. It may be as mentioned that the elite are no longer working in the UK. Respect to John Major for raising the issue. He may have been a Tory but from very lowly background as is my MP (one of the fastest rising Tories at the moment, son if a taxi driver from Bradford). Even in politics schooling not as important as ambition and good brains. It may take two of our education elite in charge to
change this. But if you want to get into medicine you still need to know someone!

off topic, losingtrust but if your DC had to choose a second language to learn after French would you advise Spanish or German (my head would say German if doing business in Europe, my heart Spanish)?

I guess it depends where they end up also - in the US, Spanish more relevant I would think esp. for companies doing business in Latin America.

losingtrust I really don't buy that about medicine. The London medical schools in particular are working very hard indeed to recruit students who reflect the social and ethnic mix of their patients. One thing, as someone who has had far more contact with the medical profession than I would have liked, I have found reassuring is that from my DDs peer group, both state and private, it has been the candidates with the true vocation and potential to have the best bedside manner who have been successful rather than those with the straight As who are applying for medicine for the kudos. Extensive work experience, the grimmer and dirtier, the better matters far more than "knowing someone". In fact I don't know a single applicant who has got their place as a result of knowing someone. Completely off the record I do know a doctor involved in the recruitment process who commented that because they get such a high proportion of their applications from elite private schools, in particular from Asian students at elite private schools, they face an uphill battle to get selected.

I am biased to German as I lived in Austria and my ex lives in Sweden where German really helps with Scandanavian languages but I picked up Spanish easily after French by teaching myself. Much harder to do that with German where grammar is do different so I have encouraged DS to do German. The boys seem to prefer this as well with all the history and politics associated.

Shooting. That is good news BIL is specialist consultant and how to look up north for a job as in the area (Birmingham) he was in at one interview he was taken aside and told he was white, male and did not know anyone so should look elsewhere. His DS wants to be a doctor and he is getting him plenty if work experience in the hospitals he works in to try and counter this. He is concerned about his DS but probably his memories from the 90s have coloured his view.

He has also encouraged his DS to do French as an extra A'Level with all the sciences and Maths to make him stand out a bit when applying for medical school and Duke of Edinburgh and all that. He has said the same about the predominantly Asian applicants with all As from private schools.

BTW his children are state educated but heir mother former language teacher so slightly at an advantage. They ski regularly, have travelled extensively and therefore not really at a disadvantage compared to private education.

amber2 - when selecting which MFL to take at school, look hard at the quality of teaching in the particular school your child attends (schools vary wildly and a school may have a much stronger Spanish team than German team, or vice versa) as well as your own family preferences. While it might be better in an ideal world to speak German than Spanish, be realistic about the resources you have to choose between.

If you need lots of work experience to be seriously considered for medicine, then I don't see how you can argue that contacts don't help. Losingtrust has effectively pointed that out by saying her BIL is getting his son lots of work experience!

I wouldn't want anyone from a less fortunate home to be put off medicine. We have medics in the family and my experience is that yes you can make it through from disadvantaged homes IF you can get very high exam grades and if you can get some work experience. I am not saying it is easy to get into any of these "good" jobs on the thread at all whether you're upper, middle or working class. It isn't. However I wouldn't want those from less advantaged homes to be put off by thinking connections and the right accent is what gets you into these jobs - it's not.

On languages I have not used my German A level and I was pretty good but that is jut chance/luck. I call still understand it and I am glad I did it. The only other person who did it with me at our school ended up living in Germany where her English husband's work moved them, so it was really vital to her. The older children did French and German. The younger have done French and Spanish instead because we ended up with some South American connections and in fact they are only keeping up French of GCSE. I think Spanish is sufficiently easy that you'd be better doing German with your French at school and then just learning Spanish later if you need it for for work.

Oddly, I found German a satisfying and easy language to learn, as it had so many rules... I don't see why it would be so difficult to teach yourself.

rabbit you don't need contacts to clear up poo in old people's homes. It is that sort of unglamorous experience which shows commitment to helping others that impresses. Indeed my Asian friend was commenting that it is now recognised that so many Asian applicants trade on their contacts to go back to India or Pakistan to work in the grimmest hospitals there to try and impress the medical schools that it no longer has the added value. And the hospitals now have schemes to make sure work experience is accessible and shared out fairly.

My friend's dd so enjoyed her time clearing up poo in the old people's home that she is back there sorting out their activities whenever she is back from uni, it is that sort of innate caring and kindness they seem to be looking for.

My DD is a scientist but her German GCSE got her the offer of an internship there this summer. We genuinely never thought it would come in so directly of use.

”My friend's dd so enjoyed her time clearing up poo in the old people's home . . .”

Really?

Ask her to do it again once she gets into medical school or when she finally qualifies as a doctor.

She is in her fifth year at medical school and still going back to spend days organising activities for the old people she worked with. Really. Do you not believe in the milk of human kindness?

That I can believe. . . but enjoy clearing up poo?

Or indeed that the old people in a care home might actually be interesting, likable people you actually would want to spend time with and to try and improve the quality of their lives? You would hope a good doctor would get that.

I think that being immune to handling all manner of noxious substances would be an essential quality in a doctor. As it happens I have cleared up old people's poo (though I was paid for it, not sure I would have volunteered) it does give you a certain satisfaction to do so in a way that gives the person dignity and kindness. Didn't feel quite such noble sentiments towards the lady who waited until you weren't looking to make animals out of it and arrange them on the bars of her bed......

But we digress from the education superclass, or maybe not, it can come to is all....

German is easy once you've learnt the basics. Der, due, dad, die. Still remember learning etg in rhymes. And TMP. Lego language is a good description but Spanish after having done French was a doddle.

Yes, they may be immune to noxious substances but given the choice I rather think they would avoid clearing up poo voluntarily, to be honest.