When to go private?

[Vijac]

If money is limited, which stage do you think is most beneficial for a child to have private education? 4-7, 7-11 or secondary? Secondary is obviously where you get all your qualifications etc and where you are most likely to go off the rails and participate in club. But then, if you don't have the best start in education could it set the tone in a child's attitude and would they get into the more academic secondaries? What do people think. Just as an aside, I do know that there are good state schools available too.

Private schoolers tend to surge forward pointing out how most of the families are destitute, not to speak of a wide cultural diversity yadda yadda yadda.

"Of course they don't! Why would they? I don't think we are arguing that kids from private school are FSM kids?"

But surely there should be lots of "FSM kids" at private schools, what with all the bursaries.........

I don't live in London... but again, see, 'of course they don't! why would they?' just seems bit unthinkingly accepting of a massively non-diverse mindset in a private school.

You're right - of course they don't. They don't let those children through the door. I think that's a bit crap.

That's bollocks (private families are destitute)

There are a very few bursaries at dds school, eveyrone is revoltingly middle class. The few that arent have one child only and are clearly putting both salairies into it plus a bit of scholarship.

The Bodenishness of it annoys even me although clearly I am a complete hypocrite

I do live in London but being quite bright and indeed not entirely effnically white myself am fully aware that the cultural/ethnic diversity of the UK tends to be in urban areas. Especially when it comes to poorer families (see the FSM comment above). So, yes, you may have more posh non-white families than non-posh non-white families in rural areas, that would make sense.

Its a nice school though, they have an arboretum skips

Steaming nit - the diversity is an interesting issue for me personally. I moved from an inner city area which was very ethnically diverse, but not very financially diverse (majority very low socio economic). I suppose diversity for me means a whole cross section of society, all income groups, all religions, all ethnicities, all class groups. Living in a predominantly low socio economic area is not in my opinion diverse. My children both went to state schools in this area and despite one of the schools having over 20 different first languages it was surprisingly good and achieved more than expected given the assessments on intake.
I then moved to small town where the state schools that my children went to were predominantly white middle class with well below average FSM. The parents are majority middle income earners. However one of the schools was dire. The children did not achieve in line with expectations, bullying was rife, racism was also apparent (despite the schools continuous denial). Most of the children had tutors which skewed the SATs results favourably.
One of my children now goes to a private school and it is majority white middle class (although more ethnic mix than the previous state school).
So I have experience of a state school which was ethnically mixed, a state school which was predominantly white middle class and a private school which is predominantly white middle class. None of these school had true diversity because the children at the state schools come from the local area (therefore intake based mainly on areas house prices, demographic make up and family income) and the private school is based solely on affordability (not academically selective). None of the schools had a real cross section of the whole of society.
Luckily, I am not interested in choosing schools based on their diversity because clearly that is not straightforward in some areas. I choose the current schools based solely in what I felt could meet my children's academic, social and emotional needs.

I think Cory's post is good. Really, assuming you can afford it then you should look at the best option for your child. I send the DCs to a private school. I don't do that for diversity reasons, or for a peer group, or because I'm thinking about exam results.

I sent DC1 because I wasn't happy with the state school he was attending for many reasons that were personal to us, and him. He's thriving in the private school. DC2 goes there because we work, and it makes it easier to only have one school run. I don't think she would have had the same issues in our local state school.

If you can afford it then I think going from primary is good because it offers smaller classes (generally), and access to specialist teachers. If you can't then I'd suggest going from P7 (final year of primary).

Ah. I actively want diversity. I think diversity is a Good Thing. I think it enriches my children's lives and the lives of the wider community in which they live.

Of course I want a broad, liberal education with the option of at least two languages and three sciences. But I want that delivered in a school that is also delivering it to black kids and poor kids and kids who live in B&Bs and kids where school is the only source of what one can broadly term 'education'.

Fortunately this is not unusual, despite the shock-horror hysteria about Dreadful Comps that abounds.

That does sound good motherinferior. I don't think that exists in rural south west however.

Good comps here (of which there are some very good ones) are certainly not culturally diverse although they may be fairly socio-economically diverse.

I do think that SOME of the private schools here encourage students to look beyond the very cosseted way that they live. I know some will shout patronising! but they do seem very aware of other cultures and helping the poor and needy (its a cathloic school and rooted in help and charity for others). They really celebrate the culture of the boarders who come from a variety of other countries. The comps are very rooted in white british rural way of life which wasn't something I particuarly aspired to for my children, being an ex londoner

Just to add, I'm not 'smug' about my children being at school with Somali refugees (or 'pirates' as some prefer to refer to them and I don't think the fact that you've apologised for that really is enough, when you've explained it was because that's how you were referring to them to your husband. Ah that's alright then). I'm just suggesting that perhaps a family who've fled Somalia are not exactly the same as a wealthy Asian family just because they happen to be non-White.

However, I am smug if attending a school with a mix of socio, economic and ethnic backgrounds helps my child not to make crass remarks about people from Somalia.

Hmm about the "diversity"....

I dot care what race/religion/ income level families have, bit I prefer schools where kids are supported in their learning at home. Where parents support the school.

In my experience this preference is not related to class or race.

I am not actively searching a school with lots of kids from rough (uncaring parents, rich or poor) backgrounds as I would fear a higher level of disruption, bad attitude to learning, even violence. ( from pupils or parents)

IMO underperforming kids from seriously underprivileged back grounds might benefit mote than anyone from smaller class sizes and more support at school.

PS, not white or British myself btw

I have name changed for this post as it is more personal - I have already posted on this thread under another name.

DH came to this country as a refugee so despite our DC being in a private school we have a much better idea of the reality of life as a refugee than many of the posters whose DC happen to have a few refugees in their school.

It does bother me a bit when refugees are held up as some sort of beacons of diversity. It also annoys me that there seems to be an assumption that private school parents are actively seeking to avoid people like my DH. My DC don't avoid the chap who fled a civil war as a penniless refugee; they call him Dad.

I see this thread has gone the way of most....Private vs State...

To be honest I do care about the kids that have it tough. Those that need a good school to bring them out of the dire destitution of their plight.

I'm just not that charitable to say at the expense of my child. It maybe the cultural difference between Chinese culture and any other culture. We value our family first.

I am sure some parents will love to have a private education and that's great if they can afford it or can find a way to do it ...Then perfect...

If you are smug attending a school with a mix of socio, economic and ethnic backgrounds. That helps your child not to make crass remarks about people from Somalia. Well that's all good too...

What I do find offensive is that private school parents are either made out to be ogres who do not love their children or that our children are so cocooned in the rich life that they don't know how terrible it is to be poor.

You made your choice we made our choice. Why is your choice automatically right?

"What I do find offensive is that private school parents are either made out to be ogres who do not love their children or that our children are so cocooned in the rich life that they don't know how terrible it is to be poor. "

If you read through this thread, as many others, you will find that it's state schools and, by extrapolation, state school parents who get the criticism. I don't think I have ever seen anyone sayings that private school parents are ogres who don't love their children...why on earth would anyone say that?

But your children, like mine, are incredibly privileged regardless of where they go to school. And it is undeniable that if they go to private school they are going to be even more cocooned in that privilege than if they are at state school. That's not a criticism- that's just a fact.

No, I haven't seen anyone making any comments about private school parents being ogres, either. I haven't really seen any comments about them at all.

What I have seen are ignorant and offensive comments about sending your child to private school so he or she can learn to read and write, get the basics, not go mad at 11, get deep learning, etc.

I've seen more stupid assumptions about state schools than anything else. And that's why, as you say, the thread has gone the usual way.

So your fact is based on that if a child is based say in Kingston goes to Tiffin s/he will be less privileged than say a child who goes to any private school or for the matter of fact if you go to any middle class suburb where there is a state comprehensive where catchment is the criteria to get into said school?

These children are no less privileged than those in private sector schools. In fact most private sector schools children are from these very same families.

If what you mean the inner city schools well yes obviously as the school again is in a catchment area where mostly dysfunctional socio economic groups. Note I said most not all.

Although I did read an article on a very good school in Camden that politicians use for their kids that is very good and it is state too...

I agree that there hasn't been anything about private school parents not loving their children.

On the other hand, I have sometimes seen (not necessarily here) an assumption that they might love their children just that little bit more than state school ones - 'it's all a question of priorities', 'we just really value education over having flash holidays' etc

There are too many assumptions and judgments made from both sides.

Going slightly against the grain, but if funds don't permit private education throughout, I would do private for primary (following the principle of 'give me a child until the age of 7 and I will give you the man'), state for 11-16 because GCSEs are a bit of a joke and you can supplement with tutors, out of school clubs, and out of school music, but definitely private for sixth form, where a deep understanding of the A level subject matters.

This post rather sums up the attitude. Politer that some, in that it doesn't mention rails or wolves- but typical.

What are the assumptions being made about private schools which you would like to challenge, norude?

No, kenlee, I think you misunderstand me. Your children and mine are, I suspect, equally privileged in many ways. But children at private schools are, of necessity, less cocooned in privilege than their private school peers.
As you know, Tiffin, and a few similar schools are by no means typical of state school intake.

I say if you want to go private then go private...You don't need approval from anyone but yourself. If you think that is what your child needs.

If you think you should go state then go state ...you don't need approval from anyone either....Again if that is what your child needs.

It really doesn't matter what choice you make....The choice is yours.

But not everyone's, right?

Bit naive and daft to say it's a straightforward matter of choice because a) it's not a choice most people can make and b) other people's choice do matter.