When to go private?

[Vijac]

If money is limited, which stage do you think is most beneficial for a child to have private education? 4-7, 7-11 or secondary? Secondary is obviously where you get all your qualifications etc and where you are most likely to go off the rails and participate in club. But then, if you don't have the best start in education could it set the tone in a child's attitude and would they get into the more academic secondaries? What do people think. Just as an aside, I do know that there are good state schools available too.

F you are Jesuiticalky minded, then "show me the child as 7 and I will show you the man", the it is the formative early years that count.

If you are practically minded, you do it at the time you can afford it (which might mean straightaway, as who knows what financial ups and downs the future will bring) for at least you get some of the benefit.

If you see education as primarily transactional (ie it's all about exam results) then you would wait until secondary - but actually you'd probably be better served in engaging a tutor alongside state school if it's mainly about the grades.

Who'd want to be given a man who went to state primary, eh?

nit a girl from state primary perhaps

OP, or you could be like us and opt for state primary with a view to private secondary and find that state education has improved massively and offers such a full and wonderful experience that you now want to stay in it for the full duration.

OSN puts things so much more articulately than I do and probably more forcefully (no bad thing), but it does make me laugh when people talk about diversity in private. There are Somali refugees in my children's school. Knowing them gives me a different perspective on the recent shipwrecks in Lampedusa and they aren't the same as a wealthy say, Indian, family who sends their children private although they might both be of a different race.

It also makes me laugh when people say go private for the basics like learning to read and write. Do you really not think that's what they learn in state primaries?

If you are not in a city, you aren't that likely to have refugees of any sort in your local school. The diversity of big cities just isn't replicated in state schools across the whole country.

It's one of the reasons why comparing sectors is such a bad idea. Because all you really can choose for your own DC is the best fit of what is actually on offer, within reach and with a realistic prospect of entry.

If you live in London or a big city I expect you do get interesting diversity as you say (this is not just ANY diversity, this is interesting POOR diversity...)

If you live rurally then the most diverse kids you get in the state sector are a few Polish kids and the children of the family who own the take away.

hear hear EdithWeston

Altamoda - do poor country people move to the City to be poor, then?

Well, the intake of the state secondary where you live is likely to represent the nature of the place you live... and as Rabbit said a few pages ago, if you were that bothered about diversity, you might well have factored that in to where you choose to live. I personally feel that children should go to school with the children they live near, but that is, of course, a personal opinion.

I'm not sure it's about 'interesting' diversity (boring old kids whose parents own the takeaway, eh, dull as fuck I'm sure!) vs boring diversity - it's just about contesting the claim that a selection of children whose parents have quite a lot of money can truly claim to be 'diverse'. The first and biggest barrier to a private school is MONEY - what's left after that hurdle has been cleared will be unlikely to be heterogeneous, sure - but I don't think 'diverse' is an appropriate word to apply to it.

Yes lots of low income families in rural towns. Not so many very rurally as house prices too expensive and rents now astronomical. Low income agricultural workers in pockets.

LOLOLOL at people deliberately choosing areas with lots of low income families to improve their families sense of diversity

Do people really do that? Oh we can live anywhere so we'll choose this really run down area so that I can feel very smug about my children knowing the children of somali pirates?

I think you're lololololling at the wrong thing, Altamoda. I was saying that if a family was extremely concerned that a child should encounter ethnic diversity, they'd probably want that to be reflected in day to day life as well as at school.

BTW Somali refugees are not the same thing as Somali pirates. That's really quite an offensive thing to say.

We don't live in a very diverse area. My dc3 is at state school and it is 100% white and predominantely middle class. It is the nearest state school to us. There is absolutely no doubt that my dd at private school is the one who has come back wanting to know more about Korea/Nigeria/Oman/China/Japan. Dc3 doesn't have a single black or asian person in his school. We have to live here due to family commitments. I don't think everyones experience is the same as yours.

! Sorry of course it isnt.

I was telling dh about the thread and said it by mistake then typed it.

I do realise that pirates and refugees arent the same thing

These threads always turn into an argument with people who choose private being accused of not wanting their children to mix with lower classes, having misguided ideas about buying a superior education, damaging the state system by contributing to an elitist education system, creating division, being snobs, buying peer groups, wasting their money etc etc.
People who are against private schooling get accused of things too.

Here's what I think: we are all entitled to educate our children in the way we choose, taking into account affordability, logistics, the child's level of academia, personal beliefs. I have nothing against people who choose state school, Private schools, home education, free schools or state grammar schools. People choose what they feel is best for their child and family circumstances and what they can afford or manage logistically. I don't think that those who choose anything except the local primary / secondary should be slated and accused of being snobs. I also think that those who do choose the local state schools should not be slated for their decision.
I would be the first to be annoyed if somebody calls people chavs (or any other derogatory term) because they have chosen the local state school. I would also be mighty annoyed if somebody calls people snobs for choosing a private education.
Why do we need to stereotype people and pass these judgements constantly? Why can't we just accept that people do what they want with regard to their own child's education?
Private schooling is not child abuse.
State schooling is not child abuse.
Home education is not child abuse.
Just be happy with what you choose for your own child and make the best of the situation if your choices have been limited and you have had to accept something that wouldn't be your first choice.
If you feel somebody is wasting their cash by paying for private school then keep those feelings to yourself. They might equally feel that you are wasting your cash on other things. We are all entitled to spend whatever money we have on whatever we choose. It isn't illegal to spend ones cash as one wishes on legitimate things. Booze, fags, education, holidays, property, extra curricular, cars, beauty, it's all the individuals choice.

Well thanks for spotting it!
We all have to live where we live due to family commitments, I would think. What I'm saying is, I think if diversity was someone's top priority, they might well not feel that buying the experience of encountering wealthy children from other countries entirely ticked the box.

I don't know what you think my experience is, though!

Cory - good post.

Norude look at the posts on this thread - it's not about saying people who choose private are snobs or idiots or child abusers.... but some of us take offence at comments about sending children to private so that:

they are nicely formed by 7
they 'learn the basics' by 7
they don't 'go off the rails' at 11 when they go to state school
they get 'deep learning' at 16
they get 'diversity' by meeting other children from other ethnicities - but interesting ones, not ones whose parents own the takeaway.

Those are the sorts of attitudes towards state schools which are being articulated by some people on this thread when they talk about private education. Those are the attitudes which make me disapprove of private education.

So what I understand is that because you are rich you have no cultural diversity at all.. by virtue that you have money. Cultural diversity is for the poor people.

The rich Indians do not know their culture because they are rich.

I know for a fact that in private schools especially boarding there is a rich diversity of different culture. That melt together quite well. My daughter is from China her best friend is English from rural England. Their friends consist of a Russian, a Spaniard and a Korean. They don't have a Somalian but they do have a South African but they aren't in the same friendship group.

So by saying that cultural diversity can only be seen in state school is incorrect.

If you mean poverty and the understanding of poverty then I will agree that if I was in a poor inner city suburb the schools will have a more diverse number of poor people. That I have to put my hand up and say YES.. you do win the argument there.

I on the other hand unashamedly can afford to place my daughter in a private school. We will top up her extra curriculum activities if and when needed. We are happy that the school has good pastoral care and that this Christmas we may well go to Korean to meet her Korean friend's family. As I'm sure her English friend will come to Hong Kong to visit us in due course.

Everyone is different and everyone should make the choice which is best for the children.

But you are twisting a lot of what people say to confirm your own beliefs steamingnit.

I bet if you met my kids you'd really like them and vice versa. You have to accept that sometimes things arent that black and white.

And I really don't care that much about diversity in schools. My children are kind, helpful, thoughtful and polite. They don't seem to judge anyone yet. So I am not worried about them becoming UKIP voters in the future. Anyone that uses ANY form of selective education can't really be that bothered and I include grammar schools at the top of this list.

Kenlee then you understand wrongly. Cultural diversity exists at all income levels - but when you draw a line above a certain level, you are obviously drawing a line on a certain amount of diversity while you're at it. Fine - just don't pretend otherwise.

Altamoda I'm sorry you think I'm twisting things - I could c&P the posts I mean which are intrinsically, implicitly or directly offensive about state education if you like, though it would take a while!

Like you, I didn't hunt down where I live or where my children go to school in order to ensure diversity of every kind - and, like you, I'm sure that both those choices were determined by any number of practical, financial and emotional factors. Nonetheless, I will always answer back when people claim that their private school is 'actually more diverse' than the state, without clarifying that very large statement.

Well I suppose people think diversity in its simplest form means people from other cultures/religions. In that case, in my situation, there is no question that my dds school is more 'diverse' than my ds' school.

Economic diversity - not so much I agree

I really don't think our local private school has quite the cohort of kids on free school meals that my daughter's comp does...

...oh and I should add that I think the FSM presence is a Good Thing.

Of course they don't! Why would they? I don't think we are arguing that kids from private school are FSM kids?

or are we I am quite confused now

I do think the rural experience is probably the polar opposite of the London experience (hard for Londoners to understand that the whole country isnt the same as London I know ) in terms of cultural diversity in schools.