Meeting with Head Teacher about the choice of senior (private) schools for DS - what questions to ask?

[PrettyBelle]

DS is sitting 11+ exams in January and soon I am meeting with his prep school's HT who is reported to be very knowledgeable about boys seniors in the area. I am a bit overwhelmed with the choice - most schools are quite far away so I am really not sure how to make a distinction between them in terms of suitability. They all claim to have "superb facilities", be "pursuing excellence", "nurturing", "instilling confidence", etc. Not sure how much help the HT would offer - but I would appreciate any advice on what kind of questions to ask him in order to get a clearer picture of our options. Thanks in advance!

What information have you had about the schools so far (other than their own glossy leaflets)? Presumably you've been on open days already and got some sort of idea of their 'feel'? DDs school gave us information of the CAT scores of children (anonymous of course) in previous years who'd been offered places at the various private/GSs in the area so that parents could get a realistic idea of their own child's likelihood of getting a place - that's the first level of filtering, to stop unrealistic parents from putting their kids in for exams for inappropriate schools. Have you had that sort of feedback yet?

Beyond that - well, there are some obvious things like whether your child is sporty/academic/musical etc etc and what the particular strengths of each school is. If your HT is any good at his job he ought to be able to help quite a bit with getting the right fit for your DS.

One other thing is that the HT may have knowledge about aspects of the school which they don't publicise - for instance whether they suffer from bullying (ours gave us a 'strictly between ourselves' warning off one school after we posed a specific question).

Is this your first meeting with the HT on this? And is this for year 7 entry or year 9?

I only ask as many of the public schools with year 9 entry have quite early registration dates (eg you are a week too late for Westminster and by several months for St Pauls). Even some of the year 7 schools have early registration (eg Sevenoaks was 1 September I think).

In terms of your HT, he will see your son in a different context from you, so I would agree with Errol, you want to find our where your ds lies in the pecking order academically, the HT's impressions as to where he might thrive.

Agree, ask the HT which category of schools he feels your DS would be suited to.

Then start whittling it down from there.

I remember my parents having this discussion with us lot. First they would tell the HT the budget for the education, and he would find the right school.

No point hankering after something that is a) out of your price range and b) not suited to DS

Take the heads advice seriously- they know the senior schools and which are suitable for each type of child (and in some respects they know your child better than you do). The prep school does not want to have children going to schools they are not suited for so they will he careful and considered in their advice. If more than one school is recommended then you go with feel and take your DS's view into account

you go with feel and take your DS's view into account
yes - and if you haven't already, make sure that you visit any schools you're seriously interested in during the school day, not just open day.

I too an amazed it us this late in the day to have such a meeting- surely you have had to register for particular senior schools before now??

If this is your first discussion it is pretty late . We had meetings form Year 4 onwards which included an assessment of the most recent CAT and PIP tests and which would be a good fit academically and socially. Have you been to open days , know anyone how has moved dc in previous years who can give you a feel for the culture and strengths of each ?

Focus on where would be the best fit. What his strengths and weaknesses are and which school would best support him. If he is very sporty or musical which school would match that best? Is he better in a school that pushes him, does he thrive on competition or does it demoralise him?

Thanks for all your responses so far. I only moved DS to prep school this year and the HT asked to give him a month before any recommendations can be made. Until now we considered only one senior school but, having seen a big difference now compared to his previous state school, we are now looking at other private senior options as well. The schools I looked at have a registration deadline in November.

but will your ds be up to speed for 11+ this year ? Does the prep school go up to 13 or is there an attached senior?

LiSZ, prep school goes until 13 so he is likely to stay there until that age. There is no senior school attached. He had an 11+ tutor over Year 5 and it's not only prep school boys that get into selective seniors anyway.

Are you looking at boarding or day? I mainly ask as obviously boarding throws an awful lot more schools into the pot.

I guess in terms of questions then, you will be hoping that the prep has assessed him, and if so, you want to know what the results of the assessments are. CAT scores or PIP test results are also useful, but if he is going to have to sit CE at 13, then you need to know where he is across a range of subjects, including languages in particular. I would be prepared to say that the overwhelming majority of entrants to private schools at 13 do come from prep, not state. There will be overseas students as well of course.

At the end of your meeting, I guess I would hope that you have an idea as to what level of academic selection you might be looking at, details of when pretests are, whether you are looking at 13+ or CE exams, any areas where you should be considering scholarships and what may be required. Depending on how many schools are open to you, then there may also be an initial few names discussed. Obviously if you are looking at day schools, then the selection will be more limited to travel time.

I'd be surprised if the head recommends 11+ entry after such a short period of time at his school. They are business after all ! If you don't plan to board him or move then that will narrow down the choice based on logistics. Do you have other dc to consider ?

I would also mention that pre testing will happen for 13+ CE schools (if they do) in the new year and you will need to make sure your DS has covered the curriculum which from a state school he may not have done. Also I know where we are lists have already closed for 13+ entry some time ago so this may influence your choices also

iirc some pre-test in year5 and yes registration lists may well have closed for some, even for 13+. Depends whether they select on CE or set their own 13+ exams

Thanks so much for your responses. I am planning on day school for DS and have a few options in mind - but need to check how academic they are in reality and what are the chances of getting a scholarship in others, more expensive ones. I have a DD and education is funded from my income so money is a consideration.

THe HT at DS's previous (state) school thought he would be "comfortably at the middle level". In his new school, he scored the top of his class in the recent Maths paper and 98% in 11+/12+ NVR. So I am quite positive that DS would be successful in at least some of the schools where he will be sitting exams.

I understand that he has to sit 11+ exams and then either moves next year or has his place deferred until the age of 13 and then takes CE exams. So I am a bit puzzled that there are so many responses about CE - all boys in his year are taking 11+ next January.

Would it make sense, as a back-up option, to sit exams at a less selective school in the hope that he would be a strong candidate and would qualify for a scholarship?

Sorry, sentence got cut off from the earlier post - THe HT at DS's previous (state) school thought he would be "comfortably at the middle level" at our first choice private selective.

I'm not surprised that all of the boys will be doing exams for senior schools in year 6 in a prep school.

I would be very surprised a) if all the boys are sitting 11+ and not pre-entry for 13+; b) if a headmaster of a 13+ school promotes 11+ entry to any parent (doesn't he believe in his own product?); c) many senior schools allowed candidates sitting 11+ to "defer" to 13+. I'm not anti 11+ entry by the way, just would be surprised that any decent prep school headmaster would even suggest it as a possibility!

But obviously schools across the UK operate quite differently. Many of the day schools within reach of me offer entry at 11+ and 13+, but you cannot defer from one to the other: they are separate applications and if you choose not to take up an 11+ place you start from scratch at 13+. Eg here, "We do not allow boys to be entered for both the 11+ examinations and the 13+ Pre-test, even though they are both taken by boys in their Year 6. Thus, parents have to decide if they want 11+ entry or 13+ entry two years later."

In terms of sitting for a less selective school for the hope of a scholarship, I think you have to look at how best will that school suit your ds. It will depend on the geography of your area and the number of candidates competing, but from my experience locally the academic differences between the top selective schools in an area and the next tier can be quite significant. But it may be worth exploring with the head. I doubt that he would give you poor advice, but of course he may not be upset at the idea of you sitting other schools in order to add to his scholarship count. Don't be too tempted to overdo it - it can be an exhausting time for the boys as they have to do interviews and scholarship assessments as well.

Not all (many) schools do the defer till 13 route. My experience with boys is that those who want to go to a senior school with an 11+ entry (not many in Surrey) will do 11+ in year 6. Most others who have in mind a 13+ school will be doing pre tests around the same time which will if successful give then the right to take the 13+ CE for that school when they get to year 8. They will still have to meet the schools requirement in terms of pass mark. I have never heard of a situation where all boys take 11+ regardless of whether they are moving or not- is it a Grammar school area?

Ladymuck, are pre-entry tests for 13+ different from 11+? In DS's school all preparation papers that he is working on now are called 11+ exams - which further confirmed my earlier understanding that it's the same exam but some boys leave prep schools at 11 whereas other stay until 13.

That's something I will have to ask the HT very precisely about. Thank you very much for brnging this up.

How many schools is it reasonable to apply to? My friend's DD sat exams to 4 private schools and one grammar.

How many depends on the schools in question, I would imagine. Admittedly we are only looking at 13+ CE/scholarship entry, but my understanding is that most if not all are only going for one school. I may be wrong.

stealthsquiggle - really? What happens if the boy fails? Presumably, good schools have more candidates than places so even if only sufficiently capable students (following recommendations from their prep schools) are sitting exams there is a chance that they will not get a place?

PrettyBelle

My DS1 is in Yr6 and did bring an 11+ ISEB english practice paper to work on. Some boys in his prep will move at 11+ to a local co-ed day school but most (like DS1) will do the CE for a 13+ move.

However, DS1 will be sitting the ISEB Common Pre-Test later this year for 13+ schools. The school is using the 11+ papers as part of the prep process for that as well as direct preparation for those boys taking the 11+

I would get the HM to talk you through the process.