Probably done before but private v's state primary ?

[HelloDolly]

I know we'll choose private secoundary but will our daughter be behind if we try the local state school first ?

WHY??? Me and dh were discussing this - I quite like a uniform myself but why on earth does it have to be something utterly arcane (and therefore very expensive)?

It is interesting that pupils in private school are said to have had a very lucky start in life and seem to do better than state schools in the main in exams if the teaching is so poor. Especially since so many private schools are non-selective.

Perhaps the children are just brighter?

I also think it is interesting that many people posted on the 'if I win a million' that the first thing they would do was put their children to private school.

My experience of private school is very different from Sobernows - in fact none of the schools I visited when choosing a school for my children used unqualified staff. Much the opposite really - there are some excellent teachers around.

When I picked the children up on Friday on a lovely sunny afternoon - it was a lovely scene - with all the children in their afternoon clubs - small boys in football practice, senior boys playing cricket, prep girls playing netball, a good fast moving roller hockey game going on, and the headmaster playing throw and catch with a handful of pre-prep children while we parents nattered and enjoyed the sunshine!

I think what matters is not state or private - but whether you think the school is the right one for your children and continue to think that once they are there!

every time this thread comes up the issue of Private schools hiring 'unqualified' teachers comes up.

In reality all schools can, and many do, use 'unqualified' teachers. And this holds for state as well as private schools.

I work as a secondary teacher in the state sector. I am now fully qualified, however I worked as an 'unqualified' teacher for two terms in the middle of my PGCE. I was taken on by the school that I had done my teacher training with. They had seen me teach and offered me a job. I took it, and I now work with them as a qualified teacher. Not having the PGCE didn't make me a bad teacher.

I send my children to a Private school. All of their teacgers have either a degree and a PGCE ot a B Ed....in other words they are all fully qualified.

THis varies from school to school and you simply cannot make simple generalisations.

Yeah - I love the idea that a one year course can transform someone from being incompetent to competent. What guff! Teaching qualifications often have little to do with classroom practice anyway, and IMO teachers are born not made. Training can improve them slightly but the possession of a PGCE is one of the least reliable indicators of teaching ability.

Anyone who thinks the art of teaching can be taught in one year at university doesn't understand a thing about what teachers do.

There are private schools which both take and specialise in Special Needs education..my son's indpendent secondary school has 30% children with special needs, including those paid for by the state.

It has been brilliant for him.

The PGCE was generaly bugger all use. THere was some useful stuff on lesson planning, progression and scemes of work. Formative assessment was helpful. There was also useful info on statementing etc. A bit of the stuff on differentiation was good but some was totaly useless, since we lack facilities. Nothing that you couldn't get in 2-3 weeks.

the stukk on learning theory was interesting but not really that helful on a day to day basis.

I honestly learned most on the teaching practices, and by watching more experienced members of staff.

Before I was taken on as 'unqualified' I was observed several times by my mentor, head of biology, head of science and deputy head. They liked what they saw and gave me the job.

I haven't really chnaged my style of teaching, now that I have the magic bit of paper!

oh and the rest of the staff room thought it was a hoot that I was 'unqualified' given that I did have quite a few qualifications at the time

Yes, I am also one of the 'unqualified' - I get my piece of paper in a few months. Already, I have had thank you notes from parents and students declaring that I am 'the best maths teacher they've ever had' etc etc. And my teaching qualification has done FA to qualify me for real teaching. I wish wish wish somebody brave would take teacher training out of universities and redirect the funding to give new teachers teaching relief so they can sit at the feet f good teachers and learn, and to release good experienced teachers to sit in on our classes and give us feedback.

'Qualifications' are a nonsense, and I wish more people understood that.

Indeed, mb! This will be my 5th degree/diploma of some kind - and the only one that has insulted my intelligence.

I had this wonderful idea that ds should go to a certain private school, based totally on their reputation, things in the press etc.

Then I went for a job interview at the school and realised I would rather cut bits of myself off than work there, and so if I wouldn't work there one day a week, why on earth would I want my one and only ds there 5 days a week?

The next week I was approached by a state primary and now happily teach there one morning a week and think it's wonderful. Ds couldn't go there because we are not in the zone, but my reservations about state schooling are totally gone.

It depends on the child and the school, and what you do with the money you save if you don't send them, and what you have to do without if you do.

in response to the original post, a few kids at dds state primary will be off to private school at 11. It is an excellent primary and lots of them go on to private school every year, so no, dont think they are behind.

When we just had dd1 we also considered private secondary but this cannot happen now with three children so its the local comp for the dds

No national curriculum - that's exactly what I hope i'm paying for !!!

So if there's a regular inspection and mostly qualified staff you would say it would be worth while ?
We would have to go without holidays etc but i don't see that as a huge problem.

independent schools are accountable in that they are registered and inspected by ofsted.

The National Curriculum is a relatively recent innovation which doesn't necessarily reflect on educational standards.

I think it depends on the school and if you know which private secondary you want your dd to go to, it's well worth looking at the list of schools which regularly send children there. Although alot can happen over a number of years with schools (i.e. their standard can change alot) you'll get an idea from their entrants as to whether they are largely state or private.

Only you know which school you feel is right for your child and you'll only really know by going to have a good luck round your local options. Good luck with your choice hellodolly.

a good luck round i.e. a good look round

Zippi, there's a private school here that specialises in Aspergers kids and so does take special needs- but there's no way they'd touch Sam, because they have the ability to select those kids who will do well there, and to de-select those who would cause trouble/ thump other kids at lunch time. there's another As kid at Sam's school, her parents fancied the lok of it but couldn't afford it for all their three kids and didn't feel they could invest that much ahrd cash in one child alone.

TITCH21 is also HYACINTH/MANDYJ no?

The private school that my kids go to have 15% of their kids on the SEN reg. They have lots of children with ASD and adhd, who generaly tend to thrive in the smaller classes, and fairly ordered environment. The also have many children with dyspraxia and dyslexia. The SEN numbers are roughly comperable with the school that I work in (state sector)

The are also regularly inpected my the independent schools inspectorate and they follow the NC. All the children sit the dreaded SATS

Do not know a Hyacinth or Mandyj - what are you talking about.

Take it as a Yes then.

I have to say that I find the statement that private schools are not inspected and not held accountable to be as much a generalisation as saying that all state schools are rubbish. Ds's school gets both an OFSTED inspection for reception as well as an Independent Schools Inspectorate inspection. The rpeort are availabel on the web in the same way as OFSTED reports are.

As for accountability, it is a competitive market and if the school fails to deliver what parents are seeking (and that does vary - for some it is class size, others want wrap around care, others wants places/scholarships to selective entry senior schools) then parents will usually opt to move elsewhere.

Of course not all private schools are "great" - what you'll find is that they all market themselves to different parts of the sector, so for many parents the issue is about choice - by including the option of going private you extend the possible choice of schools for your child.

Going back to the OP, it will depend on precisely which secondary school you have in mind, but most will have pupils transferring in from the state sector. If there is an entrance exam then most children will have some tutoring for it.