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Original poster

withdrawal from RE/Collective worship AND Gifted/Talented

642 replies

outofthebox · 18/07/2013 12:08

Hello.

I have searched this forum but have been unable to find a specific discussion on the experience parent have had when withdrawing their children from RE and Collective Worship.

We are Jewish Humanist (Atheist) and I object to my son being involved with prayers or any kind or being in a christmas play- nativity involvement is specifically out of the question.

We are also American so my husband and I never had to deal with feelings of exclusion regarding the above issues because religion is not allowed in public schools YEY! We don't really understand the RE system and my first child is just turning 4.

His school has assembly every morning. From what I understand, it is usually of an ethical theme which is terrific, yet it follows by a prayer at the end and then once a week there are hymns and once a week there are relgious plays of a nature which has not yet been made specifically clear or to me.

The school headmistress has not offered any solutions or plans except to say we'll deal with it. This last school year, my son was taken out from practicing for school christmas songs but I know he felt sad about being separated from friends as he was only brought into another room to play with playdough and overheard everyone but him practicing. I'm not sure that overhearing practcing is consistenet with honoring re withdrawal rights. Also as the school is a christian private school run by cognate, I'm not sure if they have the ability to do what they want vs a state school.

My initial thought is to just bring my son to school 15 minutes "late" each morning so he won't even know what he is missing - of course if there is an awards day or something I don't know how this would be handled. The headmistress really gave me the indiciation that in circumstances like this, she wouldn't know what to do either- yet I think the school has a duty to come up with some accomodations doesn't it? In regards to being "late" it was communicated to me that my son might in future be marked "late" which would interfere with the attendance policy.. don't know what to do about this.

Finally, on top of it all, my son is listed as gifted for reading and math. This past school year I was just thrilled because the wonderful year 2 teacher met with him once a week and encouraged him. I thought that just maybe,. if the school is going to give support here, that they do so when my son would otherwise be in RE or collective worship as he might not feel excluded specifically. I get the feeling that while that one teacher was thrilled to offer up her time, the headmistress really doesn't want to ask her staff to sit with my son and would rather pressure us to confirm or leave. We are not the type to just bow under pressure-

SO! With all of the above in mind- any tips? What has your experience dealing with withdrawal been like? How to deal with a headmistress or ensure your rights are enforced?

Thanks so much.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 19/07/2013 00:18

You've taught in a faith school?

MerylStrop · 19/07/2013 00:19

I repeat: The JW kids at school certainly do not have to absent themselves from school, and other activities are provided.

OP wants out of RE too.

I consider myself my kids primary educator. School is just part of the picture. But I have not chosen the very convenient and outstanding CofE primary school round the corner because of the way the schools faith ethos actually underlines a lot of the way they teach (And all the iconography dotted about) as well as their 2 hour act of worship each week.

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:20

The OP mainly focuses on assemblies. But state, non faith schools also practice Christmas songs, have Nativities etc so again the issue is not specific to faith schools.

The OP also says the school headmistress says, 'We'll deal with it'.

So it is not unreasonable to expect she will do just that.

And yet some of you seem to be suggesting it is.......

DelayedActionMouseMaker · 19/07/2013 00:22

That we're was supposed to be an eerrrmm.

The main reason your post annoys me is that you are perfectly happy to send your child to a school which in all likelihood is funded or partly funded by a church, which you don't believe should exist. Yet that churches money has, in some way, contributed to the excellent status which gives the school it's allure.

You admit there are alternatives, why not take them if this sits so badly with you?

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou · 19/07/2013 00:23

Well to take Easter as an example, from a Christian pov, Easter is about the death and resurrection of Jesus. It's about new life/new beginnings/new hope/new covenant. Because early Christians shamelessly stole pagan imagery from the pagan celebration of new life/new beginnings etc. does not mean that, for Christians the significance of Easter is any less. If you don't learn about Easter then how do you make the comparison? If you don't learn that people have different beliefs then how do you learn that some people use the egg as a symbol of the new covenant and others use it as a symbol of the new spring?

I think the daily act of worship is stupid and I have signed petitions and written letters to that effect but the OP has chosen a private Christian school and they are letting the child withdraw from stuff. What more does she want? For non of the other dcs to hear a Christmas song either?

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:23

'The JW kids at school certainly do not have to absent themselves from school'

Well, they do if they don't want to take part in the daily act of worship or the nativity play or the Christmas cards etc.

As they did when I went to school.

Sorry, but that's just not good enough in the 21st century.

You wouldn't say that vegaterians can simply not bother eating lunch with everybody else and should find another school or make other arrangments would you?

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:25

'The main reason your post annoys me is that you are perfectly happy to send your child to a school which in all likelihood is funded or partly funded by a church, which you don't believe should exist.'

Er, don't confuse me with the OP.

My kids don't go to a faith school but they do have to deal with the collective act of worship bollocks.

I don't withdraw them but only because of the hassle and the attitudes and lack of understanding as are evident on this thread.

piprabbit · 19/07/2013 00:26

The HT seems to be attempting to deal with it and is accepting of the OPs desire to withdraw her child from assemblies and RE.
Unfortunately the HT hasn't yet been able to provide a space where the OPs child cannot overhear religous activities. Nor does she seem willing to provide one-to-one G&T lessons for the OPs child to cover the times when he is withdrawn from religious activities.

OhBuggerandArse · 19/07/2013 00:26

But what you're suggesting is that everyone souls stop eating meat because there are vegetarians in the dinner hall.

OhBuggerandArse · 19/07/2013 00:28

*else, not souls. Does my phone know we're talking about religion?

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:28

Ithink, there is a very big differnce between learning about a religion (I have no problem with this) and telling kids that Christ was ressurected at Easter as if it were a fact (which I have a very big problem with).

piprabbit · 19/07/2013 00:28

I wouldn't expect vegetarians to find another school, but I neither wouldn't expect them to demand to eat their lunches in a special area where they couldn't see or hear their classmates eating meat.

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:31

'But what you're suggesting is that everyone souls stop eating meat because there are vegetarians in the dinner hall.'

Rubbish. You have a menu appropriate for all or a choice.

Most schools do not offer a faith/non faith choice for assemblies.

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou · 19/07/2013 00:31

The OP wants her child withdrawn from RE as well as assembly/plays etc.

OhBuggerandArse · 19/07/2013 00:33

But they do offer an alternation between assemblies that contain elements like hymns, etc, and assemblies that don't.

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou · 19/07/2013 00:34

But they do provide the option of not going to assembly. They don't provide G&T tuition during this time though but as the kid is only 3 I'm not seeing the problem of him playing with playdoh or doing some other activity.

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:35

Well, I don't object to my kids doing RE as long as it is learning about religions. I would object if there was an assumption that any one relgision was better than any other. I'm pretty sure that faith schools can teach RS with a slant in which case I would also object.

I haven't taught in a faith school but dp has. He has had to sit through assemblies where the kids were told about the perils of contraception and homosexuality.

OhBuggerandArse · 19/07/2013 00:37

Actually, in the OPs case it's more like choosing a school sponsored by a well-known chain of butchers shops, expecting all food in the dining hall to be vegetarian, and demanding that her child is not taught about the existence of meat, or fish, or dairy produce.

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:39

NOT going is not really an alternative is it? As in, you can have the meat option or nothing.

The problem which many of you have been able to identify with is that assemblies are very much part of school life so if you don't go you really are missing out and that's a problem. So it's an aspect of school life where kids from other relgiions or none are not properly included. That's why I don't withdraw my kids even though I can't stand the religious stuff they have to sit through and neither can they (and it's a non faith school).

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:40

It's a bit like my in laws attitude to vegetarians. You can have a beef burger or you can have the bread!! Not really an alternative 'choice' is it?

MerylStrop · 19/07/2013 00:41

When did you last? you've not visited our school. Their position is extremely respectful, flexible and accommodating.

The vegetarian thing is specious argument in this case. I think a more appropriate analogy is the wearing of school uniform, perhaps.

As I said, I agree with you re the act of collective worship - it no longer reflects our society. In practice, a lot of it is easily counteracted, questioned and discussed, which is probably better than pretending religion does not exist.

But the OP has got other options, but chooses not to exercise them because she likes the educational offer.

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:42

I repeat the headmistress has said that she will deal with the fact that the OP does not wish her children to be involved in assemblies.

So it's not unreasonable to expect her to do that.

whendidyoulast · 19/07/2013 00:44

Her other option is just that her kid does not attend the assembly. That's NOT another option.

My kids are in the same boat. In a non faith school.

As the other option is not an other option at all I do not choose to withdraw them.

TheFallenMadonna · 19/07/2013 00:48

Faith schools are different, as I have said. I've not taught in a (secondary) school which has any reference to religion in assemblies.

But then I've never taught in a faith school. Because I don't agree with them.

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou · 19/07/2013 00:51

Not unreasonable to expect the HT to deal with it but it is unreasonable to expect G&T provision to be provided at that time. It would mean the teacher who provides the G&T to never be in assembly with his/her class, never take an assembly, never participate. It is not unreasonable to expect the child to be supervised and occupied but he is being. It is unreasonable to expect him not to be separated from his friends. You can't withdraw and be present simultaneously.