Private school at primary or secondary - which is the better option?

[Reastie]

I live where there's the 11+ in an affluent area where essentially secondary modern/comprehensive schools are mainly people who fail their 11+ and their parents can't afford private education and are generally rough and not very high expectations/behaviour (I work in education in the area at all types of secondary schools so know this).

DD is only tiny but I'm looking at preschools for her and thinking about primary schools (ideally she'd go to the same preschool as primary).

DH and I have accepted that if she fails her 11+ we will pay for her to go to private school. We will be in a better financial position then to pay for it as we will have paid off the mortgage on a second property and have a monthly rental income (we sound better off than we are in that sentence!).

However, talking to people today and looking around various primary/pre schools I'm now wondering whether we aren't better off paying for private school for her primary on the basis they will give her more individualised care and stretch her better so that she will be more likely to pass the 11+ and so go on to grammar school at secondary (and so we spend money now to save money later IYKWIM). There's always the possibility DD still won't pass it but at least we will have done all we can for her to get there and so I'll feel happy that I've done what I can.

I'm not a pushy parent (although realise I probably sound like I am!) I just want the best for DD and want her to flourish as much as possible.

So, are there any thoughts on paying for private primary on the foundations hopefully it will help get DD through the 11+ and give her more of an individualised education? Is this common? It is worthwhile?

rob - your ambition is to be a man with grown up children and who earns just enough to pay the bills. I get that, but why is it wrong to want more? And if this is the sum total of your ambition then why do you care about the choice jobs going to kids like mine?

"At least you will get a larger proportion of kids walking their fat frames to school"
rob you really have no idea about independent ed. DS1 state comp 1 double lesson of games a week, DS2 boarding school the opportunity to do some sort of PE/Games at least 6 times a week. I'll leave you to work out which is the fittest and thinest.
"why would you pay for your child's education if it's not to steel a march on as many other children as you can."
Where shall I start?

To think that people should be banned from spending their tax paid money on what they want to is just appalling. The belief that a ban on private schools would improve education for kids in deprived familys and areas is stupid. Anyway their are state schools that are as good as private schools they are called "GRAMMAR SCHOOLS" i bet rob thinks Grammar Schools are a greater evil than private Schools. By bringing everyone down to the lowest common denominator will not improve education for kids in deprived areas.

THERE ARE STATE SCHOOLS. JUST IN CASE ROB SAYS SOMETHING IT WAS MY CRAP COMP EDUCATION THAT MEANT I COULD NOT USE GRAMMAR CORRECTLY.

Don't worry, I wont.

Wrapping.

beatback.....families

My crap state education means I can recognise crap spelling (snigger)

I'm now realising that you haven't answered because you don't understand my point.

You say you've answered then in your next paragraph you talk about how paying for school gives an unfair advantage to one child over another. I will say it again, as plainly as I can.

My children had absolutely no advantage whatsoever over those children who started at the local state school.
-Roughly equal household incomes
-The extras we got through school they simply paid for after school or on Saturdays. Things like ballet and rugby. The vast majority of girls from both the prep and the state primary met up on a Saturday for riding lessons.
-No academic advantage as the vast majority of Y6s at the state school reached L5 in their SATS.

Both my children and those at the local state primary had a vast advantage over those children attending state primaries in deprived areas.

THIS is where the real division is. THIS is what needs to be tackled if you really want to lever the playing field.

I see beatback and others are trying to tell you the same thing yet you are still ignoring the gaping hole in your argument.

level not lever.

Rob. I am glad you spotted the deliberate spelling mistake. Its not suprising though because my Comprehensive School in the golden triangle of Cheshire would not let me take any exams or academic courses 25 years ago. Apparently i was not capable of anything academic.

Beatback, was your comp in the town I lived in? It's own entrance of the A34?
If so, the ht was always complaining that too many of the catchment went private. I remember reading that whilst nationally, 7% of kids are privately educated, in both Stockport (obv for that read bramhall/CH) and Cheshire East the figure is around 12%. It's far lower where we are now.

Off the A34. I need to leave the thread now as I'm getting uptight about correcting my typos which s ridiculous!

Marykatherine....."The vast majority of girls from both the prep and the state primary met up on a Saturday for riding lessons".......Do you know what that sounds like to a working class pleb from Salford like me....you may well have said Jeeves and Wooster met up at the pheasant brasserie for caviar.

If parents in affluent areas pay form riding lessons and such like I don't see what difference that makes to education. Make all kids go to their local state school. Allocate funding for every state school based on the exact same £ per pupil. I don't expect a kid in a deprived area to have parents who can afford riding lessons but at least they will get a similar education to all other kids.

I have spent a small amount of time down south and I did notice the class system down there but you must forgive me.....it doesn't really exist around here.

beatback, my spelling isn't so hot, I was only messing around. There are that many kids with A* for everything, the whole measuring of a kids education these days is a complete farce anyway.

Firstly, I am mid 40s and grew up in an area similar to what Langworthy was like before any regeneration bollocks!
Secondly, I wasn't talking about 'down south' but just south of Manchester though I fully accept that it seems like a world away.

The other thing that I should maybe have explained is that schools in affluent areas do end up with more money to spend on nice things. Less money is needed for additional staff to help 'man' a class. Also, when the PTA can raise 2-3k just from a summer fayre and happily donates most of it to pay for things such as a visiting theatre group or a well known author or amazing outdoor play equipment then you quickly realise that the difference is very palatable. All this sort of stuff on top of everything their parents manage to provide for them outside of school and the fact that they enter school so far ahead means that the experiences and opportunities open to them are a world away from the poorer kids so all they have in common is the fact they don't pay for school.

Plus more money for nice books, attractive furnishings, posters and general environment.

Mary katherine No. it was the town where neil hamilton faced the man with the white suit.

Mary katherine. You used to be able to take a short cut though to the town though that entrance. OH DEAR NAUGHTY NAUGHTY!

Ah yes! A pretty town. I don't know much about the schools there. DH has just said, 'it's proper Cheshire as it has an Aston Martin garage!'

So add up all the extra's paid for by wealthy parent, riding lessons, after school private tuition, school donations, nice books, furnishings etc etc....and then pay £33k private school fees....or....accept that the wealth/aspirations of the parents will inevitably give their kids an advantage but at least try to even things up a little by removing the option of private/public education from 9-3.30.

Don't quite understand the relevance of you being in your mid forties.

I like the way you slipped in the word bollocks.....are you trying to "be down" with the working class?

Actually it has a Rolls Royce Garage and a Bentley Garage the Aston garage is in wilmslow.

We haven't lived there for a couple of years but I remember taking dd1 to a party in that school hall and having a notice placed on my car because I hadn't paid to park. I hadn't even looked around for a parking metre as I assumed as I was parked in a school car park on a Sunday afternoon then it was free. It was a very snooty note telling me that my car reg had Ben logged and next time I would be clamped!

Oh is it? That's probably more apt. I don remember as it wouldn't be on my radar. We lived in the PP area of W so my kids did actually walk to school (PH)

I am working class and DH is always telling me off for saying bollocks.
The ref to my age was because as I'm sure you know, inner city estates were even more deprived 35yrs ago when I was in primary school.

Oh and I'm sure you meant to come back on and correct the incorrect apostrophe you placed in extras.