Private school at primary or secondary - which is the better option?

[Reastie]

I live where there's the 11+ in an affluent area where essentially secondary modern/comprehensive schools are mainly people who fail their 11+ and their parents can't afford private education and are generally rough and not very high expectations/behaviour (I work in education in the area at all types of secondary schools so know this).

DD is only tiny but I'm looking at preschools for her and thinking about primary schools (ideally she'd go to the same preschool as primary).

DH and I have accepted that if she fails her 11+ we will pay for her to go to private school. We will be in a better financial position then to pay for it as we will have paid off the mortgage on a second property and have a monthly rental income (we sound better off than we are in that sentence!).

However, talking to people today and looking around various primary/pre schools I'm now wondering whether we aren't better off paying for private school for her primary on the basis they will give her more individualised care and stretch her better so that she will be more likely to pass the 11+ and so go on to grammar school at secondary (and so we spend money now to save money later IYKWIM). There's always the possibility DD still won't pass it but at least we will have done all we can for her to get there and so I'll feel happy that I've done what I can.

I'm not a pushy parent (although realise I probably sound like I am!) I just want the best for DD and want her to flourish as much as possible.

So, are there any thoughts on paying for private primary on the foundations hopefully it will help get DD through the 11+ and give her more of an individualised education? Is this common? It is worthwhile?

Mary Kathrine. Actually most of the succesful people in the golden triangle have family links to Wythenshawe or to Salford they might not adknowledge that but thats the truth many grow up in Salford or Wythenshawe and though hard work and in many circumstances luck managed to move in to the "GOLDEN TRIANGLE" the fact that they are so flashy and want to tell people how wealthy they are is because they are hiding the truth. Anyway the Langworthy Estate is far worse than anything in wythenshawe, and some parts of wythenshawe are quite desirable believe it or not and attract many Middle Class familys because parts of wythenshawe are in the Trafford Education catchment area. And as you probably know familys use Trafford to avoid paying private School fees.

I work regularly in Langworthy, Pendleton, Broughton and Wythenshawe. There might be nicer bits in Wythenshawe, but factor in Wythenshawe's huge council estate and it's on a par with anything in Salford. Langworthy has had a recent revamp and a load of students/yuppies/Polish have moved in.

Queen - quite funny how you went on about teachers not getting paid much and immediately following was an anecdote from rob about a teacher earning £38k

Beatback, yes I would agree with that. A lot of the Wilmslow/AE/bramhall parents who paid for school had 'done good'. They were without doubt a different type of parent from the type who chose to pay in Surrey or Sussex.
I just couldn't keep up in my old jeans and anorak!
But I still think they behaved as if they lived in a little bubble as that is what that little part of Cheshire is like.

We have friends still living up there who are in Bramhall. Nobody in bramhall ever acknowledges that bramhall is in stockport and they all refuse to use it in their address. They can't bear to consider that their £1m house is in the same county as places like Brinnington where I did quite a bit of supply teaching and found it as deprived as many areas of Manchester or Salford. We used to tease them about it even though their house was worth double ours.

And as you are still refusing to address my point, rob99, I am just going to make it clear once again. Abolishing private schools will absolutely not level the playing field. You are delusional if you believe that. It will just mean that more areas will become as elitist as our state primary as people who can afford to, congregate together to ensure that their school only contains their sort of people. There will be small pockets of very expensive housing around certain schools and the divide will continue. Chose to teach reception around here and you'll have 25 kids out of 30 who start able to read as well as they can ride. Chose a school in wythenshaw or Brinnington and you'll spend the year teaching them how to sit and hold a pencil. I've seen it with my own eyes do don't delude yourselves with talk of 'level playing fields'.

I can spell and string a sentence together. I am just tired and sat in dd2s bed stocking her hair after she woke us all up with a nightmare.

I have experienced this with my DH in a way - this sense of frustration that the world is not how it should be. I'm more practical in a way. I see the way that the world is, and I want to look after my DCs. That's normal, surely :)

HappyGardening agree

"Caveat emptor"-let the buyer beware!

our nearest private primary is very cheap in private terms

£1400 per term year r-year 6.

its im converted house very little outside space.

its not got prestigious reputation its a fallback school mainly for kids who dident get on in state or dident get their prefered choices as its in a area with dire state schools so capitalises on that.

We moved dd from largish town school as was failing to small village.

at our old school several left to private and some this local primary.

when speak to them they talk how how great it is but probably is compared to old school.

but dds freinds in class of 9 year 2s seems too small.
her parents say shes getting on great but her behaviour has declined so not overly sure depends how you define good.

i have another freinds son in year 1 who,s flourished there.
lots of extra currucular but think he has lots of freinds, is active and making most of all the extra curricular activities they have to offer and very different to the year 2 child.

but at new village school 2 kids have escaped this private school and slate it another lady has 2 at village school and 1 in year 6. hes just got scholarship to very expensive well performing seniors.

the negatives were pushy, dident communicate with parents well, were harsh on the kids if child,s not academic they will have bad time there.

so im bit confused but if i go back and compare the 2year 2 dds.

we left after october half term.

think her freind left after feb or just before easter so possibly march.

dd has ended up with higher nc grade for writing.
1 grade less 2b instead of 2a to freind in private school.

freinds mum raves they do so much go swimming every week-thats costs extra, revels in the smart overly prentencious expensive uniform, all the after school clubs are extra money not included its bit like an easy jet school no frills everything else is extra.

Her dd doesnt seem happy and my dd has tonnes of freinds, is happy, has done many trips and clubs cheap or free.

Thee really stretching themselves to afford it and say they cant afford to send younger sister .they cant afford move better one as fees higher.

The next nearest private primary over 2k a term has good reputation but know someone who moved them to more expensive one as they had facilities but dident do much she was very cagey but said not as good as its reputation.

we have no grammers here.

some dire schools in state.

high independent sector but lots private are all through primary/seniors not preps. so you would likly end up staying if you liked it nursery to year 11 or nursery to year 13 if do a levels 14years of fees!

IME many small independent primaries capitalise on MC angst they set these fees to be just about affordable, they have ridiculous fancy uniforms, bang on about small classes, early reading/writing, discipline, organic lunches etc etc. but also IME these schools have a high turn over of children and are literarily hanging on by the skin of their teeth. My DS's spent a short time in a minute state primary 4-5 in each yr I am not in the least bit convinced that tiny classes are good.

MaryKatherine.....it's choose, not chose isn't it? but I'm not a teacher so I can't be sure...thought it was a typo....but twice ?!!

Yeah, I will address your point.....The state tells you what school to attend i.e. the parent has no choice - it will be your local school. I know this will lead to posh areas and not so posh areas affecting the kind of pupils in school but that happens now anyway as parents scrap for desirable schools like birds at feeding time.

At least you will get a larger proportion of kids walking their fat frames to school and a reduction in school run madness and pollution.

Obviously this is just my education model, so it's not going to happen is it. Let's face it, if people on here can pay £33k PA for Tabitha's education, they'd be able to fly her abroad every week to get the education their little special one deserves.

rob - for someone who professes to be happy with his lot in life you sure do spend a lot of time posting rants about people with more money than you.

Rob, I'm finding your constant references to privately educated children as Tabitha and Tarquin a bit rude, chippy and aggressive. Also the assumption that they are all fat is a bit bizarre.

Can you imagine for a minute that a privately educated child can be nice, well-mannered and humble?

How would you feel if I characterised all state-educated children as oafish, am-I-bovvered types, all thick and overweight and badly dressed?

rob - I like how you make all those negative 'observations' about privately educated kids AND then complain about the attitudes of the presumably state educated apprentices that you mentor.

Rob is very chippy

How are your little Tyler and Kyle btw ;)

Rob99, yes of course it's choose and not chose. It wasn't a typo just an iPad autocorrect. My iPad also corrects so to do which is also frustrating. I couldn't be bothered to change it as it was late which is why I posted again explaining that I could, indeed spell.

You seem to think that teachers are badly educated. I have 3 good Alevels, a 2:1 from a top 5 university, a PGCE and a masters. I could have chosen a different career, perhaps law like my DH. But I wanted to teach so that's what I did. I'm not sure why you have such a chip on your shoulder tbh!

Oh and as I said, the local parents didn't drive to the state school before so why would they be more inclined to if private schools were abolished? There would just be more RRs being driven half a mile up the road!

Oh and you're not addressing my point at all! You talked about how abolishing private education will get rid of the two tier system. It absolutely will not. Do you really think the child from wythenshawe and the one from wilmslow would be getting the same start in life, the same opportunities simply because they were both at a state school?

The playing field will not be levelled, ever, unless you adopt a system such as in Brighton where they use a lottery system and bus kids all over the town. But nobody can walk to school then so take your pick.

rob99. Why have you got a problem with people who have the option and means to make things better for their family and kids. Most of the people who pay private School fees, have sacrificed in either material things or in time when working stupid hours in trying to make a business work . Why is it wrong to use every bit of advantage you have got to make things better for your, family and kids. Why is there hated and pure envy for range rovers, every single one has been built by your comrades in solihull "ROB" and a fantastic world class product it is.

MaryKatherine....I thought I did answer your point........"I know this will lead to posh areas and not so posh areas affecting the kind of pupils in school but that happens now anyway as parents scrap for desirable schools like birds at feeding time."

Parmarella.......Beyonce and Shakira are very well, thank you.

beatback....I don't hate people with Range Rovers or people who pay for their child's education and I'm not jealous either. The very worst I think about Range Rover drivers are that they're a bit of a cock....children on the other hand are different in my opinion - generally speaking I feel uneasy that one poor child gets one education and another gets a £33k education. Yes, buy a Range Rover to lord it over my Ford Focus, we're all adults, no big deal but please don't go giving a child a great big leg up with their education at the expense of all other children......it ultimately means that their kids will have opportunities that others wont get. If you use the example of people on here who have been to Oxford and have attended state schools then it doesn't hold water....firstly there are only small numbers who achieve this and secondly, why would you pay for your child's education if it's not to steel a march on as many other children as you can.

I don't think you should have the choice, I think the state should take that option away........in my humble opinion.

rob - you yourself said that you are happy with your lot in life and that you rather be you then me. If that is the case, why do you care about how I raise my kids? I mean, you have no interest in highly paid jobs so why does it matter to you that they go to people more ambitious than yourself?

FormaLurka.......I thought I was debating. I appear to be on a forum where everyone thinks it's Ok to pay for a better education for their kids. I'm just disagreeing with that view. "I'm alright Jack" shouldn't apply to children's education in the UK.....

If you're saying that state educated kids aren't taught manners, you could be right....that's another issue....I'm not happy about it.

FormaLurka.......I was ambitious, I wanted to be an engineer who earns £25 a year. This is Salford....I'm quite posh around these parts....I've got a front AND back garden !

I am against abortion.....it's about protection of innocent children. With education, I don't believe how much money you have should be a factor.. I don't like big Chelsea tractors to drive special Tarquin and Tabitha about "because it's safer".......for you !....not for us cyclists and everyone else. It all revolves around selfishness really....that's all it is.

I'm not aware that I made any comments about manners and state schools .

I was directing my comments at your earlier posts where you went on about you being happier with your life than people chasing the dream of a bigger house and new car. I can understand that perspective if you was a teacher or a social worker but from what I can see, you work in a 9-5 office job that you aren't too happy with. I don't see the reasoning behind your moral superiority.

MaryKatherine.......Please write out 1000 times "I will not trust my spelling to technology, it's sloppy"......and don't do that thing where you tie 4 pens together to finish quicker !

FormaLurka......I don't work in an office, I work outside in the fresh air.....I am happy with my job.....I'm not happy my company was privatised, I'm not happy about number crunchers in London who don't know what a screwdriver looks like, telling me how many jobs I should be doing in a 9 hour day.

rob - I drive a Ford Focus. Anyway, lorries and trucks are the major killer of cyclists going by London newspaper reports. And then there are boy racers in theirs pimped hot hatches. Our local rag regularly have stories of them wraping their cars around a lamppost.

You probably find the Chelsea tractor brigade way down on the list of road safety threats. But don't let that get in the way of your tirades.

It's funny how you post how happy you are with your job and then go on to list things that you aren't happy with.