How do we ensure all UK children regardless of back ground/ability receive high quality education?

[happygardening]

Contrary to what some may think I'm not anti state ed and as someone who works with disadvantaged children it really matters to me that they receive a high quality broad education and they fulfil their potential. But sadly in many cases they are not (there are I know exceptions) frequently their parents cannot assist them for a variety of reasons.
Is there an answer to this problem or are they condemned by their circumstances which are not of their own making to remain at the bottom of the heap?
No judgey DM comments please.

And we let them demolish SureStart without a fight. Shame on us.

I just googled the new word.

"So we're suggesting that instead of a system where the brightest are taught elswhere, that we keep all DC together but the brightest have tutors in the evenings after school?

And this is fairer, how?

And this helps the other 90% how?

And this helps the top 10% how?

Seriously, I think that might be the worst suggestion I've ever heard!"

Agreed!

There was a very interesting programme on education a couple of years ago that featured a primary in a deprived area of London. The head teacher got great results. As she said some of these children never left the estate or went to a park. Her job was to open their eyes to what was out there so they concentrated on enrichment and the result was that the school got really good results. The answer is to not just teach literacy to kids at primary but especially in deprived areas to make them want to learn for themselves. This would be a far better state than one that concentrates on mediocre exam results only which seems to be the focus. I was the first generation in my family to go to uni even though my parents did not believe in it because I had a good round education that made me want to learn.

I grew up in depravation. One of the worst estates in Europe. High crime. High substance abuse. Horrendous levels of violence!

The vast vast majoirty of my peers are still there (though some are dead and some are enjoying accommodation provided by Her Majesty).

I am convinced that the difference for me was my Mum. She did all that opening my eyes stuff (within her means obviously) and she was pushy. Seriously pushy.

But how you roll that out on a macro level I don't know. Schools just can't have that level of involvment with every kid, can they? Teachers can't parent.

I hope you mean deprivation, wordfactory...

Ha. To add to my woes, I'm bloody dyslexic!!!!

If I were to tell you all the corkers my agent has found in my manuscripts . Oneof my main characters has a misspelt name because it looks right to me! But we've kept it, becausemy agent agreed it gave her an adge and was very 'me'.

I took a teen from a really deprived area in London on a PGL many years ago. The council had paid and we went to Paris , Brussels and Germany. His lack of World knowledge was amazing. I am not saying we should take every child on a world trip but getting them away from their every day environment via schools can only help. Word you were lucky with your mom, what about the rest of your peers?

I was lucky losing.

I think for many years I always believed that the changes to help children in poverty should be top down. Social policy stuff. I was completely behind Blair's education x3 poicies.

But now, I've come to accept that it's probably not the way. Perhaps it's better to give help to fewer, but help that will really galvanize change for them.

I guess that's why I'm not for aboliton of selective education, but for the widening of access for the disadvantaged into it.

losing - different things work for different children/countries.

.. all that I am saying is that we often cherry pick what education policy would be good for our kids and extend it as being good for other people's kids.

So true mom!

Like " my perfectly bright kid is top set in all subjects, without tutoring. Therefore setting is good, and tutoring should be banned"

And yet people with bright dc can be in favour of comprehensive education.... maybe it's because we'd be happier if they were just levelled down to the 'middle', eh?

I think for me, it's not so much that I think education should mirror what has suited my DC, but that other kids should get the chance to experience what they have. That they should get the choice IYSWIM.

And as for what will most help disadvanaged DC, well I think of my own childhood and what is happening among my extended family now.

I think one of the main problems is that politicians (and pontificators on MN) haven't ever really expereinced it. And don't really know people expereincing it. And I mean really know, not a passing acquaintance with a fellow parent or summat.

So what do you think will help those disadvantaged children who don't pass a test of academic ability, then? The ones who don't get to experience a highly academic education, or one in an environment where there aren't any disadvantaged children at all?

nit

First and foremost? Jobs!

You're going to give them jobs?

I mean, yes, of course employment levels in disadvantaged areas are going to make a difference to everyone - the 'Skint' programme the other night showed that - but we're talking about education, right? And if the answer is a widely available test that enables children who pass it to go to a different school, what is the answer for those who don't?

I agree with word. Abolishing tutoring or private education is not the way but concentrating in different areas on different things. Let the MC areas keep tutoring and pay less for these happens. This is the current reality but increase the links between schools and change the catchments. In really deprived areas with children who have no breakfast and are surrounded by adults who don't care we need to accept that these parents will never engage and therefore the children need a rich and varied education. It is not just about learning to read and write and getting to a certain level but they need mentors from business and inspiring teachers to teach them more than this. If they left school with a desire to broaden their experiences and entrepreneurial skills plus an interest in learning this would be better for them. After all what good is five GCSEs that have been spoonfed to you if you have no aspirations.

Easy answer is to get the parents to pull the plug on the electronic games and tv and computer. A useful guide to school success, imho, is how many books are in a house and by success I mean achievement at school both academic and non academic.

I am a parent of bright children who prefers Comprehensives.
Because: children are not necessarily bright in all areas, it can help them learn about mixing in the real world, there is more to life than academics, it is good to have a wide range of opportunities.
I also really, really dislike children being chosen for a path at 11.

It also probably doesn't help that: my mother passed the 11+ but left school at 14, I went to a comprehensive (as did DH) we both have 3 degrees including a doctorate; one of the brightest Maths teachers I ever met had failed her 11+; children from disadvantage/troubled backgrounds still drop out of Grammar schools. Some children from those types of backgrounds do better later in life. There is at least 1 Harvard professor who left school at 14.

I think we need to provide multiple routes through education, and not suddenly hit over 19 year olds or over 24 year olds with astronomical fees.

By the way selective education only ever really helped children from engaged backgrounds so I don't believe this to be the solution. That is why it was abolished and it is only MC parents that want it back. Streaming in comps does the same thing but broadens the horizons for those that do not pass a test at 11.

Agree totally Mommy. I am from the comp route and my mother lost all interest in education after she passed 11+ and was very anti when we were kids. She got no qualification. Dad went to sec modern and went on to do HND in later life.

Easy answer is to get the parents to pull the plug on the electronic games and tv and computer

Oh yeah - simples!

True if Nit it is definitely a rose-coloured specs idea. Some parents spend all their time on games themselves.