11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

If I am understanding all this thread correctly!

Seeker, and maybe a few others, proposes that all kids [except the privately educated kids] are all educated under the same roof, with streaming.
Would this not mean that more parents would rush to find the money to have their children privately educated?

Not to mention all the parents who will simply relocate to the catchments with highly ranked comprehensives.

"Seeker, and maybe a few others, proposes that all kids [except the privately educated kids] are all educated under the same roof, with streaming.
Would this not mean that more parents would rush to find the money to have their children privately educated?"

Does that happen in the vast majority of the country where there are no selective schools? We are only talking about about 160 schools, you know!

Sorry, I dont understand.

I thought you wanted everyone to all be educated under the same one system, whatever it would be called?
All accross the UK, not just Kent.

I do. I want the selective counties to come into line with all the others.

I have lived - and taught - in counties with no grammars whatever, and also in a county with a small number of 'residual' grammars, attended by a tiny proportion of children overall.

Proportion of children at private schools is probably slightly lower than it is somewhere like Kent (mainly due to demographics - at least a couple of the counties I am talking about are less well-off than Kent on average, so private schools are out of the reach of more families IYSWIM).

Yes, there is some migration to areas with the better comprehensives, but less than you might think, especially as most of the counties are relatively rural with distances being large, so moves to better catchments turn into HUGE commutes and the differences between the schools are not sufficiently large to merit the effort IYSWIM. With a very 'polarising' environment such as that in Kent, everything becomes much higher stakes. In the counties I am better aware of, the differences between the schools are not that vast so the pressure to move for a better one is reduced.

Oh, and minor point. Setting by subject, not streaming. Streaming is pretty daft - how do you stream a child who excels at Maths but struiggles in subjects that require writing? Much better to set for separate subjects, so such children are in appropriate classes for every lesson.

Seeker wants a communist education system.

So do you think that would actually increase the privately educated children by a substantially large number?

Setting for every subject creates a lot of problems for effective monitoring of children as whole individuals.

My post was to seeker

In France, the move to private (which are not independent) schools is massive. There are lots of half-empty state secondaries whereas private education is massively oversubscribed - some 40,000 DC who apply to private schools every year are turned down.

Well, a bit, probably. But as I said, we're only talking about 160 odd grammar schools.

Bonsoir, please don't be silly.

Sorry, I didn't notice that, teacher. Setting, obviously.

"Setting for every subject creates a lot of problems for effective monitoring of children as whole individuals."

Lots of private schools manage it.

Also a minor point. I would be in favour of Special Schools for those so exceptionally able that they cannot be appropriately educated in a mainstream setting - assessed by an Ed Psych as is currently the case for Special Schools of other types.

There ARE some children so extreme that they cannot sensibly or efficiently be educated in mainstream - those who are ready to take GCSE Maths at 9, a few others at that 'exceptionally gifted', c. 150 IQ level which is genuinely a special need. One Special School per county, perhaps co-located with a large exisitng secondary to cope with those children who need mainstream education for some subjects and Special Education for others, would seem plenty. If you wanted to call such a Special School a 'Superselectove Gramar', you could - but assessment would be by Statement of Special Educational Need, done by professional Ed Psychs, as such children are so rare (possibly rarer than those children normally labelled SEN in existing Special schools)

My son will be set for nearly every subject (or small group of subjects - I believe he will be in the same set for e.g. Geography and History) next year in year 8 - normal state comp. I thought that was usual practice?

He will remain in the same tutor group for registration and PSHCE as he has been for Year 7 (not set, except for Maths) and his tutor will retain overall and pastoral oversight. Not rocket science.

Ilikethe breeze,

I would imagine that there might be some initial move to private in the transition phase, as 'fear of the unknown' would probably push some parents towards a 'known' private option rather than a 'new' comprehensive.

However, in the longer term that would be likely to settle down - in the same way as it has in areas of the country with only comprehensives after the education reforms that abolished grammars in most areas.

Private schools have resources for monitoring pupils that state schools will never have, seeker.

Bonsoir,

Well, the level per subject, target setting per subject, monitoring of progress per subject appears entirely robust so far in DS's ordinary state comp - in the sense that I have had 3 reports on it so far this year, toigether with overall statements of personal progress from tutor, head of house and headteacher, all of which seem to tie back exactly to the marking of his books and assessments.

I can't see this suddenly becoming an impossible exercise from september next year when he is set of all subjects. Granted, each teacher will feed individually into the database - as of course happens at the moment becuase he is taught by lots of individual teachers - but the tutor, head of house and HT will still have oversight of his entire progress map. Not vast resources - decent assessment protocols + an Access database appropriately maintained would do it fine.

Oh, and I know of no streamed comprehensives locally. All use sets, though sometimes these are within a subset of the year group instead of across the whole year group. Foe example in Maths at present, there are 2 groups of 4 tutor groups, each group being divided into 4 or 5 sets for Maths. The top set in each of the two overall groupings are parallel - just easier for timetabling and room use than the who year group all doing Maths.

My area has good comprehensives and therefore people don't tend to use private unless they don't get the comprehensive of their choice.

It isn't a choice for many people anyway- far too expensive, especially if you have several DCs and will have the expense of university.

My area has a mixed bunch of comprehensives, so there are a few thriving privates - probably not the best quality private schools though.

My ds is at a secondary modern school- he is set for most subjects and will be set for all (I think- possibly not RE) next year.