11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

Bonsoir, it is debatable whether the person who doesn't understand and asks for explanation is more or less stupid than the person who has failed to make herself clear and is unwilling to expand.

Morethan, if it wasn't a superselective, I suspect you would be unlikely to get a place at a grammar school 30 miles away.

And the travel thing is an issue.

That wold be a step in the right direction wordfactory as would providing a uniform grant and paying for educational trips. As people are falling over themselves to go to Grammar School there isn't any real need for them to do outreach however they could be held accountable for their FSM figures.

Although there is an obvious difficulty in stating what the correct percentage of FSM children at any school should be for example, some of the small rural schools where I live (affluent area, desirable ACORN profile) have 20% FSM.

I have expanded in great detail. You are the person who currently lives in Kent and has to deal first hand with the system, yet you fail to grasp it, unlike the many, many other Kent parents I know. Yes it is highly competitive, yes it provides great opportunities for DC with brains, money and clued-up parents (but not all these criteria are always necessary). I think you have failed to grasp just how hard you and your DC need to work to get the most out of the system.

'We aren't fsm but same income' - I would imagine your priorities might be different if you were FSM morethan.

pickled I think if you told low income parents that their DC were bright enough for x school and that they'd get free transport and kit, far more would go for it.

Unfortunately, one of the issues is them not being told. Teachers can be quite a reactionary bunch when it comes to selective education.

And of course, the issue of worrying about bus fares and kit must put some off.

These things are easy to solve though!

Bonsoir, can you c and p the the post where you expand in great detail?

Of course it could be solved like that word. Now all you need to do is tell the LEAs..... (currently cutting back all travel savagely to the absolute bare statutory minimum).

A huge amount could be done with political will. But it just isn't there.

As our superselective is in an area with relatively high deprivation (over 40% FSM over last 5 years in nearest comprehensive - we do have fairly 'tre' comprehensives reflecting their immediate catchments, not SMs, as the superselective takes from the top less than 1%, leaving other schools almosy unaffected) it is not the travel costs that are presenting FSM children attending it.

It is the barriers to entry caused by tutoring (whether through private primaries - by far the greatesrt number of entrants to the superselective attend such schools, professiona tutors or clued-up parents), relatively poor local primaries and the 'not for the likes of us' attitudes caused by failure to do any outreach that seem to cause the disparity, not the practical ones of transport.

Oops: should be a - after 'such schools', and I meant 'true' comprehensives, and professional tutors.

morethan if the maximum your income could be is £16,190 pa my own view is that you'd struggle to pay in excess of £1000 pa travel per DC. If you really were prepared to try to manage that then your family is made of a peculiarly self-sacrificing mould which brings us back to the issue of parental encouragement and involvement. Very few parents would realistically contemplate doing that. It's a very real disincentive.

Most DC going to Kent grammar schools come from state primaries - Judd (boys) and TGS (girls) are the real outliers here and they have historically been the most selective and desirable.

Bonsoir,

Why is it a good thing for parents and children to have to work extraordinarily hard to 'get the most out of' a system that is a 'vibrant' marketplace?

Given the importance of education, and the value to the hole of society that VERY child should be educated to their full potential, surely it would be better - both for the individuals and for the society as a whole - that every child should be able to get the most out of the system with simply a normal level of parental literacy, involvement and effort?

Why should we restrict parental involvement in their DCs' educational success? Why shouldn't we create a system where parents, children and schools can all give of their all, if they wish to do so? Sounds much better to me.

What do you mean by "work very hard"? Do you mean work hard and earn lots of money so they can go private?

teachersorry to contradict but these days there are a multiplicity of disincentives at work and the factors affecting access will vary according to the geographical location of the superselective. Cost of transport is a very real issue at ours.

Also I'm surprised that as a primary school head (apologies if I've got that wrong) you aren't aware of any outreach going on.

No. Work can take many forms!

So stop being coy and say what you mean!

I have said what I mean. You are the person who has a lot of problems understanding information that is given to you .

pickled you say people are falling over themselves to apply but I think it leaves out a sizeable group who should be encouraged to apply but don't.

Look. I don't understand what you mean. Please try again. One more time.

What sort of work do people have to do?

How is a system where access to schools is governed by test results and catchment a "market place?

Or just c and p the relevant post.

The more GS coverage there is in a given area (with different tiers of GS, as in Kent), the more normalised it becomes to pass the 11+, for all DC.

seeker - but why should I repeat myself yet again when you clearly don't want to understand? I am trying to help, not hinder, you. I feel very sorry for you, so lost in a system that you are unable to grasp and having had your feelings so badly hurt in the process.