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Original poster

Late Grammar School offer: over the moon but stressed/flummoxed

999 replies

PermaShattered · 29/04/2013 19:35

What a 3 days we've had - any insightful comments welcome. In short:

  1. Our daughter was offered 3rd choice (her 11+ score was about 30 down on passmark);
  2. 3rd school is outstanding but we appealed to 2nd choice school as was our preference;
  3. Last Friday took calls from our local Ed admissions authority saying why appealed when have offer from grammar school?
  4. Said we hadn't. She made further calls to other relevant admissions authority and came back and told us we definitely have an offer and it would be in post next day (Saturday just gone);
  5. It duly arrived, and we posted our acceptance same day (they should have got it today) - verbal acceptance of place given by phone on Friday;
  6. On Friday the Authority also withdrew both our place at 3rd choice school and our appeal to 2nd choice school;
  7. Today i take a call from a friend whose daughter got substantially higher score than my DD - and she is 188 on waiting list;
  8. I call our admissions auth to check they received our acceptance (they said still in posttray but will be dealt with this afternoon);
  9. I query whether there could possibly an error and i'm told categorically 'no'. And if there was, we have a written offer, accepted it and they can't take it off our daughter;
10. Finally, my other DS is that grammar school.

I'm perplexed. What could be a possible explanation?

OP posts:
tiggytape · 05/06/2013 17:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lougle · 05/06/2013 17:24

I can't quite believe that we have stepped back over a month on this thread this afternoon....This was all debated one month ago and yet, Habba, because you don't agree with it you are trying to make Perma seem as if she is a 'chancer'. She wasn't. She was exemplary in her conduct and the LA screwed up.

LaVolcan · 05/06/2013 17:30

Not only has OP been exemplary in her conduct, the LAs have between them totally screwed up. The law is clearly now on her side, but they are trying to wriggle out of that obligation by making her go to appeal.

Poppy55 · 05/06/2013 17:42

The rules have now changed though have they not?

I though that it is just a matter of time until a test case goes through and it clarifies the new legal ruling...

if i was the Op i would probably fight and want the place, who wouldn't?

Realistically though she doesn't deserve the place, her dd marks were so low. She always knew it was a mistake ( never in a million years was she getting in on her grades) for that reason alone i feel no sympathy.

breward · 05/06/2013 17:51

Do 11 plus exam papers really get remarked or moderated 8 months after the exam and 2 months after allocation day?

I think the OP clearly knew a mistake had been made, especially as her friends child scored higher yet had not been allocated a place.

Can I ask, what are your grounds for appeal for your 2nd choice school? Non-qualification or over subscription. Is this a grammar school too?

LaVolcan · 05/06/2013 17:53

She always knew it was a mistake

I disagree - when they were so adamant that her daughter had a place she thought that they had remarked the paper. OPs early postings were exactly about that.

LaVolcan · 05/06/2013 17:58

I think the OP clearly knew a mistake had been made, especially as her friends child scored higher yet had not been allocated a place.

I wonder how many times we have to repeat what has been said?

OP asked them to check and double check. Which they did and twice told her no mistake had been made which was then backed up by a written offer. What on earth was she supposed to do?

She only found out about her friend's daughter's score after she had already accepted the place.

Poppy55 · 05/06/2013 18:08

She knew, she's an educated women. Her child was miles and miles off the mark....miles.

And if you missed that miles off the mark!

I'm not saying i would do any different.

LaVolcan · 05/06/2013 18:28

Is the pass mark fixed? If they have say 90 places and a pass mark of 250 but only 85 children get that mark, do they leave the other five places vacant or lower the mark?

When you get your results do they tell you that you are xxx places below the current pass mark - or effectively in xxx place on the waiting list?

I think it could only be said that she knew if she was told that her daughter was 180 on the waiting list and then she could legitimate say that it was impossible that 179 people had refused a place first.

tiggytape · 05/06/2013 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Poppy55 · 05/06/2013 18:46

30 marks below pass mark.

I'm not saying i would do any different but everyone knows that a Mile off. Everyone. Certainly an educated women with two children that have both gone through the process.

Yes it's a loophole. They are closing it though i believe, because its a bit silly really. Who knows maybe Op will be that case. Maybe she will luck out.

I'm leaving the thread as i don't want to dampen the pom poms cheering Op on.

tiggytape · 05/06/2013 18:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tiggytape · 05/06/2013 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Poppy55 · 05/06/2013 19:06

Tiggy, apologies i was using Op's terminology.

Op's daughter was 30 points below, that's a long way short for grammar places. Everyone knows you stand not a chance at that level. In fact did she not go on to post her friend was something like 175 on waiting list.

Op was also perplexed as to what had happened because her daughter was so far from the required standard. Had she not known the mark was poor, she wouldn't have posted here would she? No she would have thought yipee shes moved up the waiting list.
She knew without a shadow of a doubt. No one questions a place with admissions unless they know.

It's without doubt miles off passing.

donnie · 05/06/2013 19:08

"she always knew it was a mistake"

Christ, how thick are you HABBA? she checked with them and checked again and they categorically insisted there was NO MISTAKE.

Which bit of that really simple statement are you too dim to grasp? seriously, you would have a bloody job getting into a selective school yourself wouldn't you? given your inability to understand very simple facts which have been repeated many many times. How deliciously ironic.

lougle · 05/06/2013 19:22

I agree with all of you that Perma 'knew' there was a mistake at the time of the OP, if we are understanding 'knowing' to mean 'as far as my knowledge allows me to reason.'

Perma knew that it didn't seem right that her DD had a place. That's why she queried it.

I disagree with all of you that Perma 'knew' there was a mistake at the time of the OP, if we are understanding 'knowing all the information pertaining to the situation'. Perma was in no way able to reason because she didn't have the required information.

However, that's all irrelevant, because the LA has broken the Code and therefore they have no choice to give the place back.

Original poster
PermaShattered · 05/06/2013 20:22

mmmmmm. Do I react or not to habba? Only to the extent to say that I haven't stolen £3000 contrary to the Theft Act.

wheresthebeach thanks - DD is ok, has her moments but is bearing up well. We make sure any conversation is out of her earshot. And she will know that whether or not we win this appeal we are immensely proud of her for being so strong in all this uncertainty.

melody we know know one else who is going to the GS; and no one who took the test either bar the friend who is higher on the waiting list. She is not bitchy or a gossip. I know this as she's one of my best friends. And she's supporting me in this too despite the fact that her daughter so wanted to go. She is a true friend.

If my DD does go, there's no reason for anyone to know the background and as tiggy says, there may be others who have got in on appeal. Maybe someone on the basis of maladministration in another LEA! Who knows...

poppy why don't you read the thread and take note of the comments about the marks and the 11+ in general?

The passmark/cut off point isn't fixed - it and yes, (as of this year) you know how many marks your child is below the cut off point. You're not told how many are above you on the waiting list but they tell you if you ask.

The comments about knew there was a mistake is like a stuck record now. We suspected there must have been a mistake - my proactive asking about a mistake was rejected. So we assumed either a remark/error in marking had been found; or sufficient places hadn't been accepted 'releasing' more places (I have a friend, for instance, who applied for private schools as well as state schools). We assumed that once we heard from the school the school would tell us the reason. Of course, it was withdrawn by the LEA....

OP posts:
Original poster
PermaShattered · 05/06/2013 20:24

apologies for grammar/sp mistakes! Typed in haste...

OP posts:
gazzalw · 05/06/2013 21:24

Does Perma really need all this grief on here with this recent not very nice turn to the thread?

prh47bridge · 05/06/2013 21:43

Perhaps those who are adamant that the OP must have known there was a mistake would care to explain how her LA's admissions team, who should be the experts (and appear not to be the people who made the mistake), failed to spot it. The OP suspected a mistake but was assured by the experts that none had been made when she checked repeatedly. Most people, given those assurances, would simply assume that something must have happened to get their child a place.

Even if the OP had been absolutely certain a mistake had been made there is nothing she could do about it. The authorities were adamant that there was no mistake. If she rejected the grammar school place her daughter would not have a place at any school in September - the offer for the third place school would not have magically reappeared.

And the rules are clear. Once a place has been offered in error the admission authority must withdraw it within 3 days. If they fail to do so the offer stands. The admission authority was wrong to withdraw the offer and Perma is absolutely right to appeal. Or would we rather live in a world where admission authorities can make mistakes left, right and centre and not be held to account for it.

NorthernLurker · 05/06/2013 23:37

Dear Lord! This thread was started for the OP for help and advice in the very difficult and distressing situation she and her daughter have been placed in. Some of you seem intent on mounting a hijack to maintain (in the face of the facts and indeed all pleasant behaviour) that she is at fault. Those of you so intent would be well advised to reflect that you get what you deserve. The OP deserves for this error to be corrected and she has the past practice and law regarding school admissions to support her. Those of you mounting bitchy attacks on her behaviour and parenting - what do you think you deserve?

OP - I hope you get some more information for your appeal soon. Please don't let the postings today distract you from your efforts on your daughter's behalf. She sounds like an absolute delight. The school will be lucky to have her.

gazzalw · 06/06/2013 07:46

Hmm. Hate to say it but don't you think that some of the rather spiteful comments that have recently derailed this thread, reflect the 'underbelly' of the whole 11+ system?? Some of yesterday's comments demonstrate much of the passive aggressive playground mutterings of some parents, chanting 'unfair', 'unfair'....

In the scheme of things, Perma and LittlePerma have had a second bite at the cherry. It is proving very stressful but hopefully will result in a positive outcome. It does sound as if LittlePerma will be more than capable of holding her own at the grammar school that her sister is already attending. Who wouldn't take the chance if it came up? Perma didn't engineer anything. It was all down to maladministration....

Life is sometimes like this. I would challenge any of you doubting Thomas(ina)s to say that you wouldn't do the same for your child, put in this position?

Original poster
PermaShattered · 06/06/2013 07:46

Thanks Northern
My sister calls Mumsnet "that nest of vipers". I see why now!

OP posts:
Yellowtip · 06/06/2013 08:00

prh, sorry I can't find the place where you mentioned case law in the thread, but is the 3 day rule framed around grammar school entry or non selective entry? Presumably there are grammar school cases covering the point? It's just that I can see scope for an additional argument when the error in relation to a selective school.

Yellowtip · 06/06/2013 08:04

is in relation to.

Yes gazzalw, I'm pretty sure I'd try to take advantage of the error if I genuinely believed my kid could cope. It's significantly easier to make that judgment if you have a DC already at the same school.