Late Grammar School offer: over the moon but stressed/flummoxed

[PermaShattered]

What a 3 days we've had - any insightful comments welcome. In short:

1. Our daughter was offered 3rd choice (her 11+ score was about 30 down on passmark);
2. 3rd school is outstanding but we appealed to 2nd choice school as was our preference;
3. Last Friday took calls from our local Ed admissions authority saying why appealed when have offer from grammar school?
4. Said we hadn't. She made further calls to other relevant admissions authority and came back and told us we definitely have an offer and it would be in post next day (Saturday just gone);
5. It duly arrived, and we posted our acceptance same day (they should have got it today) - verbal acceptance of place given by phone on Friday;
6. On Friday the Authority also withdrew both our place at 3rd choice school and our appeal to 2nd choice school;
7. Today i take a call from a friend whose daughter got substantially higher score than my DD - and she is 188 on waiting list;
8. I call our admissions auth to check they received our acceptance (they said still in posttray but will be dealt with this afternoon);
9. I query whether there could possibly an error and i'm told categorically 'no'. And if there was, we have a written offer, accepted it and they can't take it off our daughter;

10. Finally, my other DS is that grammar school.

I'm perplexed. What could be a possible explanation?

But it's not as simple as benefiting from a mistake as she has also lost out due to that mistake because the lea removed her from the list of the other two schools.

No, she didn't, hence the OP explaining to her DD that she couldn't go. The LEA have caused this, not the OP.

Floggingmolly the OP isn't trying to force her child in by benefiting from a mistake. The OP is seeking a legal remedy to reinstate a place which was illegally withdrawn. The only school place, in fact, because the other school place has been legally withdrawn due to the existence of this school place, and the other appeal has been legally withdrawn due to the existence of this school place.

There are hundreds of examples where mistakes are made and people are compensated for them. If someone accidentally reversed into your car, are you suggesting that you wouldn't claim on their insurance to remedy their mistake?

GotAnyGrapes it must not be a stumbling block, absolutely must not, because there is a strict order to the appeals process and before even giving head space to the issue of performance, the panel must consider if the admissions process has been followed fairly. As it hasn't, they must find in favour of the OP. They can only consider the issue of performance if there has been no mistake.

GotAny - ok, the LEA can reallocate choice number 3 and everyone can be happy again...or not.

lougle thank you.
habba hopefully at least two of your posts will be removed shortly. Go away if you've nothing constructive to say.

Habba are you struggling to understand that the law has been broken? The OP is entitled to the Grammar school place for her child. Simple as that. Also, the place that has been withdrawn is most likely to have been reallocated.

..... yes, when the error first came to light there were no places left at either 2nd or 3rd choice school and we had 2 days when we potentially had no school place for our DD.

Now, we have accepted a place at the 3rd choice school and an appeal due to take place in July for 2nd choice school - which hopefully we can withdraw again!

Apart from the fact that the lea have broken the law, that place at the other school will be long gone as by removing her from it week ago, it will now have been allocated to someone else. So, assuming that school is now also full that would mean appealing anyway. And even if it has not the law has been broken and neither the OP not her DD are at fault.

Perma, will the GS appeal be heard before the appeal for 2nd school?

Yes, the GS appeal is this month, the other one next month....

Your poor dd must be exhausted by all this. If she's keeping her head up and still working hard at school during all this then she's a very strong girl and nothing grammar school can throw at her will compare to this stress.

6 weeks solid or 6 weeks spread over several months is still very light prep work for something that is very important to you and your DD.

HabbaDabba This is still irrelevant. How would you have felt if, a few weeks after getting their grammar school places, after you had already accepted them, the LEA had written and said 'Sorry, we made a mistake? (Oh and BTW, because we've messed your alternative choices are full too.)

Would you say, 'Oh well, that's how it goes, I prepared them, I did my best, it wasn't to be'? Or would you be spitting blood that they had messed you and your children around? I suspect the latter, myself.

Have just read through most of the thread.

It staggers me that the admissions team have made a mistake, that was questioned by the Op and they instisted was correct, and have then refuse the place after removing the child from the other waiting lists. Their mess they should have soted it out quickly and quietly.

I worry your DD, if she gets offered the place at the GS, is going to be known as the girl who failed the exam but got in anyway. I think the admissions team have behaved appallingly and have shown a blatant disregard for the child's emotional and social well being and a complete lack of accepting responsibility for their own mistakes.

Good luck Op I hope every thing turns out for the best for your DD. I'm sure what ever the outcome having a mum that is so supportive will help your DD more in the future than any school ever could.

... if she gets offered the place at the GS, is going to be known as the girl who failed the exam but got in anyway.

Is this very likely? From what OP said, unless I misremember, there was only one other person that she knew who had tried for the school, and was on the waiting list. Who is likely to tell the other pupils?

Do the staff get circulated lists of who passed and with what mark, or do they just get a list of names?

Hear hear Tiggytape......and how will people know she's "she's the girl who failed the exam but got in anyway" - it's not the type of thing people broadcast.......

LaVolcan - Apart from the one mom and her DD and presumably the mom's DH and the GPs and any moms that the other mom has talked to plus their kids, no one else knows the story. Since it's unlikely these people will gossip or bitch to others there is little chance of this spreading to the whole school

In answer to your question about how I would react if it was me, a few years ago £3000 appeared in my bank account. I waited a month and the money stayed in the account. So I spent it. A month later the bank debited my account without prior notice and I got hit with overdraft charges.

The money wasn't mine. I spent it knowing that the bank might discover their mistake anyday so I was prepared for The Letter to drop thru the letter box. So I couldnt get too outraged particularly since the bank agreed to not to levy the charges provided I promptly put the money back into the account.

The OP got offered a place despite there being 300 kids above hers on the waiting list. She knew that she might get The Letter as well. Yet when the letter did come its a case of the LEA shattering her expectations.

We both thought that we got away with it. In my case I didn't Perma might still tho.

gazzalw - the mom whose DD scored higher than the OP's DD but remains on the waiting list while the OP's DD leapfrog everyone, is unlikely to moan and whinge to other mom's on the list, right?

That's an outrageous comparison! Perma phoned and asked and was told there had been no mistake. You didn't phone the bank - you just scoffed the cash and hoped to get away with it.

Even if I had called the bank and they said that there hadn't been a mistake, I would know that it had to be a mistake since it was just an account I used to pay bills from (my salary and other income goes into a different account)

Perma knew that that her DD had missed the cutoff mark by 30 points and, from her friend, knew that there was at least 300 kids above her on the waiting list. Did she really think that there wasn't a mistake?

Habba
Spending money you know isn't yours is theft. They could have prosecuted you. I don't know how committing a criminal offence is comparable to a school admissions cock up.

Habba
She thought the paper might have been remarked / moderated. This does happen with exam papers.

I was going to say the same wheresthebeach to HabbaDabba.

We had a similar situation at work once - they gave some of us a pay rise when we hadn't worked there long enough to be entitled to it. They asked quite nicely and some of us arranged to pay it back, but over a period of time, on our own terms. Others told the employer to get stuffed, because the mistake was theirs and as employees they were entitled to keep the money.

OP asked the LA to check, they did so, and got back to her and said no mistake, and then cancelled her daughter's place at the other school. OP's first thought was to question whether the original mark had been moderated, (as you will see if you read the whole thread). As far as she was concerned the place was her daughter's - there was no question of knowing that it wasn't. She only later found out that someone else on the waiting list had a higher mark. Then subsequently one of the LAs decided that they had made a mistake after all, and were withdrawing the place. A similar situation to your £3000 HabbaDabba would be if the LA had originally offered OPs daughter a grammar school place, and OP accepted knowing that no way could it have been awarded because her DD hadn't been entered for the exam. That would have been knowingly dishonest, but she wasn't.

HabbaDabba the crucial difference is that with your bank account you were in full knowledge that money never came into the account unless you transferred it and money only went out of the account via direct debits that you can view or standing order or money transfer. You have access to all of that and the statements. You waited a month, when you could have phoned and alerted the bank.

Perma's situation is very different. This was all covered on 3rd May, on this thread.

" lougle Fri 03-May-13 18:44:14

AlienAttack if you go back and read the OP, the chronology is clear:

1. Did not have a place at Grammar in question; was offered 3rd Choice.

The OP at that point could not have known how 'well' her DD did, other than that she was 30 points below cut off. There is no indication on offers day of where you are in the list.

1. 26th April (Friday) was told verbally that a place was allocated at Grammar.

The OP was given 4 separate indications that she had a place:

a) telephone call to say that a place was allocated. (The OP queried this).
b) The admissions lady phoned the other LA and confirmed the place.
c) The LA sent out written confirmation.
d) The LA withdrew her appeal at the 2nd choice school.

1. 29th April (Monday) the OP received a call from a friend whose DD scored substantially higher than the OP's DD, who was placed 188th.

1. The OP queries again whether there is an error. She is categorically told 'no'."

Perma could not have known that she was being offered the place in error on the 26th April. She was simply told that she had a place. She did not have access to the paperwork. She didn't know that her DD's paper hadn't been remarked, etc.

It was 3 days later that the OP's friend called and revealed that her DD was 188th on the list - that led Perma to join the dots - her DD was significantly below the friend's DD and couldn't have succeeded purely on score.

She queried again if there was an error and was told categorically no.

The LA missed the boat. That's all there is to it.