my son is being punished for our religious stance

[LiloLils]

...this is a bold statement but its how I feel.

There isn't any point to my post but the subject is keeping me awake so thought it might help to write it down on a public forum and see if I'm not the only one who is saddened by this.

Basically my DH and I are non religious. I was brought up catholic and he was brought up church of England but somewhere along the line we both lost our faith and sided with reason. Myself particularly...I have a bit of a problem with organised religion. there are personal reasons for this.

Long story short. If we stick to our guns and don't get our boy christened into either Catholicism or church of England, he is going to have to attend the worst school in the borough.

It just really angers me. Why in this day and age do we have to jump through hoops, lie about our beliefs, and subject our children to learning fairy tales as fact, in order to get them into a "good" school?

I have never been so torn about a decision in my life. I'm being pressured by family and friends to get him christened just to get him into a good school. They make me feel guilty by saying things like "do it for your child. I'd do anything for my child...wouldn't you?" It just feels all wrong.

Squarepebbles...simple answer. Money.

We have had to move back into my family home and we live with my mother. Long story...

I know school is important but surely if you invest time in your DS as well it won't matter so much. The school I went to wasn't particularly wonderful but my parents invested time in us, sitting with me to do my homework, taking me to educational places, reading books with me etc and I reckon that's the the reason I did well.
Do a bit of research on the curriculum etc.

Could you change jobs,cheaper area?

In theory you have 4 years

Saycheeee has a point as long as behaviour/bullying aren't issues.

Seeker...yes. 3's all the way through and overall.

I go into a cold sweat when I think of my boy having to attend this school.

This is not about religion it's about how "choice" allows one school in three to be snubbed by a section of society therefore causing a cycle of "needing improvement" however I would look more closely at what that school is like and also be aware a lot can change in four years.
I went to a school (before ofsted and in Scotland) which would have looked terrible on paper in terms of results and which some people in the city thought was "rough" but it was a rurally a fantastic school, if took on a lot of kids from deprived areas and some who has been expelled from elsewhere (hence the dodgy results) but it was a caring and nurturing school and I came out with unconditional offers to the top five universities in Scotland. (It was a catholic school btw. So not all religious schools are middle-class bubbles).

I fully intend to educate my boy at home. I have a degree in English and have interests in the arts. I will focus on this. My DH has a degree in biology and is basically a human calculator so he will focus on these subjects.

Maybe I'm making a deal out of nothing. But you only get one chance at this. If I decide not to get him christened, I will have messed up his chances. There is no going back. Am I being dramatic??

Have you actually ever been into the school? It doesn't sound brilliant, but there are lots of reason why a school can get an underwhelming OFSTED and still be a good place to be. Of course it could just be a bad school, but I wouldn't panic yet. Particularly if it gets a wake up call from OFsTED- a lot can happen in 4 years.

No you aren't messing things up, you are doing the moral and right thing by not doing something that you don't believe in.

Your DS will be fine.

Oh, and it will need more than just a christening. You will have to show that you are participating in the life of the church- personally, I would take my chances with a less good school than raise a child in an atmosphere of hypocrisy.

But actually go and look at the school. Don't rely on OfSTED alone.

I understand where you came from. DH and I are both non-religious. Neither of our parents are from religious families. We wouldn't even know how to go start going to church. Our only choice is to move into the catchment of a good non-religious school.

But if I'm in your shoes, I'll get my child baptisted and start going to church, even if I don't believe. It's just what we have to do to get a good education in this country. Everyone knows many parents attend church solely for getting into faith schools. It's wrong, but what could we do? I guess I'm just being pragmatic.

Why do you get the cold sweats because a school is rated 3?

You have four years to see if school can improve. My child went to a school in Brixton for a year that all other middle class children ran from screaming - she was fine and happy. She then went to a school rated mostly 3 but last report all 2s with potential to be outstanding.

So many things can change. Of stead is only part of big picture. Visit the school. Look around. Talk to the head. Become a governor. Help make a change. Schools just aren't left to rot you know. People really do care about making them as good as they can be.

So yes, I do think you are being over dramatic.

Sorry, meant middle class parents - they didn't like the racial or class profile of the school so they fought to get their children in anywhere else. I am sure their children would have been perfectly fine.

What spero says.

Nooooo however you sound like us.

I have an English degree and dp 2 in Science and Engineering,I was a teacher.

Our school was Oustanding but plummeted to Satisfactory.It has no bullying issues and I except the situation isn't as dire however there is a lot you can do at home.Having said that I'm not back at work yet so things may differ when I do.

I keep up to date with everything.The primary section is good for that.Schools have to give any data on your child so keep up with progress,levels,national expected levels etc.Develop a thick skin and don't give up re getting info.There is masses of stuff out there online etc.Anything you're worried about you can brush up at home,not always easy though after a tiring day at school.

I do get resentful at having to keep on top of things however maybe as parents we ought to be more involved with our dc's education anyway.Parents have a massive role to play imvho.

I went to hoards of schools(forces) some utter shite but still got a degree.Dp went to the worst school in his area,did buggar all(parents didn't give a shit),but thanks to his at the time girl friend's mother taking him under her wing for a year got into a red brick uni on a v challenging degree.Years later he got into another highly thought of uni to do his Masters.

The children's centre, where I go with my boy to get him weighed etc is in the school. So I have been inside the school and have seen the children at playtime. But I have no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for.

The report focusses on the teachers, who "are slow to provide pupils with tasks that stretch them" also they "take too long to notice when pupils need tasks to be developed" and the achievement of pupils "not enough opportunities for them to write well in different subjects" and " the majority of pupils are from a number of different ethnic minorities and the proportion of pupils learning English as an additional language is high"

Which religion would you choose to get him christened into?

Definitely look at the exact admission criteria (but bear in mind that they can change), and go to see the schools. Are they infant or junior?

I don't envy you your decision. I like to think that, in your position, I'd go for the non-faith school, but I honestly don't know. (Speaking as someone who has to miss out bits of the responses if I'm in church for a wedding etc, so that I'm not lying.)

I'm an active church-going CofE Christian, my children went to the local CofE Juniors but only because it is our catchment school (and is under subscribed with only around 2-3 children a year, of the 90 intake, being admitted on faith grounds).

I don't agree with faith schools, schools are a place for education about the world and one of the greatest things about school is the growing up with people you'd not normally meet, people outside you parents' social circle. There is loads and loads of time outside of school for a child to have a faith taught.

Locally a faith group is kicking up a huge fuss about their free school transport being removed in LA budget cuts, if they win it will be a sad day, money should not be being taken from health and social care departments to fund educational segregation.

I wouldn't tolerate bullying or dreadful behaviour though.So check that out,visit and ask if it is an issue.

As others have said a lot can happen in 4 years,a lot.

Those issues aren't good and I'd keep on top of things however behaviour,bullying and teaching would worry me more. What does it say about those.

So the report has identified the areas they need to work on. They have got four years to get into shape.

What do you think of the atmosphere when you go to the school? Is it happy, bustling, are the children polite and well behaved, does the head seem happy or harassed, what are the buildings like, well maintained or falling apart?

Having a high proportion of children from ethnic minorities or with English as a second language does not make a school 'bad' - yes, school has to work harder at making lessons inclusive for all but this is no bad thing.

My school has a higher than average number of free school meals, English as a second language etc and works very hard at making all children feel safe and welcomed.

I look around at the increasing social and racial divisions in this country's schooling and feel sense of sadness and despair. Again, the middle class parents run from my daughter's school and I think they are idiots - but they are scared of all the 'poor' families.

Parachute...it would have to be c of e. Catholic church is too dogmatic and strict for my liking. And as a child who attended a catholic school, I do not want this for my child. C of E just seems more mellow. We would only be required to attend church once or twice a month, in comparison to every Sunday if we go with Catholicism.

Christ I can't believe I'm even considering this. I'm so torn.

Sorry, meant Infant or Primary?

A lot (IMO) of looking round schools is gut reaction - a bit like choosing a house. Do the children seem happy? Enthusiastic? Is there a friendly, welcoming feel? Are the corridors and classrooms bright and cheerful? Is there a positive feel to the place? Does the staff member showing you round speak to the children you come across?

I can't believe you are considering buying into hypocrisy and lies when there appears to be a reasonable school your child could go to without jumping through these hoops. A rating of 3 is not special measures.

What lessons would you then be teaching him?