Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

Maisie- please don't force me to reprise some comments on state schools I have collected over the months! Somebody has already mentioned one of the worst.....but there are plenty more.

nope. I meant it. Do you think that statement is untrue?

I went to private schools as well as state. At the private schools there was a) really nasty bullying that the school didn't bother to tackle, b) a complete lack of interest in putting themselves out at all to help a child who was in any way different, c) teachers (including the head) who simply didn't bother to show up to teach the 6th formers, or showed up half way through the lesson, and whose teaching consisted solely of dictating their university notes from decades before, and never bothered to mark any homework, d) careers advice from a woman who knew nothing at all about careers, and told all the thick girls to become kindergarten teachers, and all the bright ones to become librarians, e) children who were disruptive in lessons so impeding the others from learning, f) encouragement from some staff not to work too hard, not to aim too high, that an A was almost impossible to achieve, g) an almost complete absence of extra curricular opportunities, and everything like drama etc being an additional charge, being in the school play being only for those who paid for drama lessons, etc. I could go on. There are still bad private schools around, or ok ones with bad qualities.

Fellatio, you're saying that anyone who's answered the question about why you'd send a child to state has essentially replied: the state options for them have all been the better choice of schools (because they are excellent grammars?

That hasn't been my impression!

There are only, I think, 148 grammar schools in the country. I find it hard to believe that the state school supporters on this thread all live within striking distance of one and has a child who would get in!

My DCs went to a state primary. Their GM is a shop keeper. Their uncle was a mechanic before becoming an air conditioning unit fitter. They go to local after school clubs. As I said upthread, their classmates parents are largely ordinarily, albeit well paid, people.

Given this, why do people think that my kids will have a partial view of the world?

And why do you think that by going to a school which is largely white middleclass.white Brit gives your DC a full view of the world?

DC has friends from all over the world. I struggle to understand why you think that your kids are more rounded individuals simply because they have friends whose parents work in M&S.

Dromedary I assume your list of experiences were from the private school part of your education? Why on earth would someone choose to pay for their children to receive that kind of education?

No, TOSN -I'm not saying that at all. Maybe one or two people said that, but I was just quoting all the comments from the thread that for whatever reason implied that they do not especially rate private schools over good state ones.

I understand their arguments completely and would probably agree with them in some cases. I was just showing that for many people who can afford choice, the best choice for them is still state, NOT AS A POLITICAL CHOICE but because they are convinced it is the better school. Or at least they are very happy that it is a good enough school, and they do not feel that their child will being any way disadvantaged by going there.

And there are loads of people on MN and out in the real world only too happy to tell you of all the instances they can think of where a private school has been poor value for money and has failed to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. And I don't doubt that for a second.

Haven't read all the posts but what I will say is that my daughters private school is really not any different to the grammar school I attended- both full of the middle classes and a token few less well off.

I think Fellatio's point extends beyond this post seeker and TOSN. Seeker you are renowned for your scorn on people who use private and the GS system and at any given oppourtunity would either start a thread either slamming a public person for opting to go private, or rant about your own person circumstance with your DCs.

Fellatio is simply saying you and all the others are actually in a superior place as private schools cannot be crap on one hand (based on evidence from people on this thread) and at the same time also able to send children to RG unis. It doesn't make sense and you and the rest of the anti/socialist/principled/moral/upright citizens of this great nation of choice should sleep easy with the knowledge that private is crap.

And you are right seeker all the testimonials on this thread cannot be from people using the GS.

Its a conspiracy. 50 percent of uni places are filled by private school pupils. That's what is left unsaid. If private schools are so crap then these figures don't make sense. Next someone will come along and say that private pupils are marked up just because of where they go to school.

herethere - private schools, yes. My parents just assumed that a private school (any private school) would be good enough. They paid very little attention to what went on there.
Having said that, the 2nd private school, not the first one, had some redeeming features. The main one being that I made friends with the school swot, and that peer pressure turned me into a high achieving workaholic (no longer, sadly).

Maisie - some private schools are crap, some have some crap qualities, some are good.

Doesn't it depend on what you want your children to get out of their time at school, what sort of life you want the family to have outside of school and what you think the schools you have available to you actually offer? Private schools are not happy places for everyone, nor is the local state comprehensive. Surely the question should be, why on earth would you automatically go private just because you can afford it, rather than considering all the options before deciding?

Surely no one is suggesting that not investigating options is desirable. The shame is that for so many the 'choice' of school in the state sector is a complete and utter joke! Popular schools are oversubscribed and sometimes even people who live on their doorstep struggle to get in. In my borough last year over 300 children had to be offered places at a school which didnt even feature in their top 6 choices because there was not room for them in the borough schools! You might want a GS education for your child but for whatever reason they miss out on a place or there is actually no GS close enough.
You don't have to choose a private school you think is crap or not suited to your child...sure, there may be some who select on academic ability and certainly all will select on whether you can afford it or not, but this thread is about people who have the luxury of that choice.

Whatever your views on private or state, everyone is just trying to do what is best for their children. It is the definition of what is best that seems to be the hugely contentious issue!

And here we back to choice, for some it will be easy, grammar school, free and if you pass you should get a great academic education, but the school will be obsessed with where they are in the league tables.

What if you don't live in a GS area and cannot afford the inflated prices for the GS/great comp. What if the only choice is the struggling school down the road. What happens then. Of course some parents won't care, they won't even care if their c hild goes to school, parents evenings are for ninnies. Would you really like your child to go to a school like this?

So, we make choicess but for some there isn't a real choice.

If I was in the situation - I would move.

Just don't move too soon - it's amazing how schools go up or down almost overnight.

NB I include private schools in that - lovely and v successful private school I know of. New head was incompetent, and a few years later it has closed down.

Moving isn't so easy though is it, unless you're renting. And whether you're renting or buying you may find yourself having to downsize to move to a better catchment.

What if you don't live in a GS area and cannot afford the inflated prices for the GS/great comp then you presumably can't afford fees either?

Of course some parents won't care, they won't even care if their c hild goes to school, parents evenings are for ninnies. Would you really like your child to go to a school like this? was there a link missing there, or by 'this' do you mean an imaginary school?

"In my borough last year over 300 children had to be offered places at a school which didnt even feature in their top 6 choices because there was not room for them in the borough schools! "

I know some people this happened to - each and every one of them used all 6 preferences on schools they had no hope of getting in to, and didn't list their nearest schools.

"You might want a GS education for your child but for whatever reason they miss out on a place or there is actually no GS close enough. "

GS's are a rare hangover, if there is no G in your area, the comps should have a fair share of GS-ability kids in the top streams. If your kid misses a place in GS for being a few points below the entry level, then your child may well be better in an area with genuine comps anyway, rather than in a high school where all the GS kids have been creamed off.

I really don't get why people are so hell bent on GSs when they are not in a full GS area.

There is a frenzy about education, and a middle class panic.

Maybe, OP, since you make such assumptions, an answer could be 'to avoid those of a hysterical disposition about schools'. I'm not saying it is, but your OP begs so many questions and makes so many quite offensive assumptions.

I know it isn't always easy, but IMO the panic grips more than it need.

Don't ever be fooled that private schools attract the best teachers because they don't. They attract teachers who want more money, more holidays and more prestige. The best teachers believe in good education for all children and are fully fledged believers in " every child matters ". Private schools tend to be primarily focused on academic achievement and children often come out of these schools with an inability to understand/mix/communicate/tolerate people from all walks of life and backgrounds. They are often taken to and picked up from school in cars and so miss out on the social aspect of commuting to school with peers. They are often intolerant/judgemental of others and fundamentally live in the private school bubble and are unable to relate to the holistic and individual realities of people they encounter later in the real world. Education is about social skills, tolerance, mixing, and understanding of real life as much as academic achievement. If a child has love, support and limits instilled at home they will do as well as they can do whatever the school they attend. Simple as.