Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

I would like my children to avoid the kids who muck around, who spoil it for others and who are allowed to behave like that. Not in all schools but some. I dont want to get to 18 and think - you know I wish we had gone private, we had the money and didnt go down that route. My parents chose the sec modern for me because effectively they didnt have a choice. I didnt pass the 11+, private was just out of the question so I went to a school that was complete rubbish. I dont choose that for my children and tbh I dont have time to fight the education system if I find my children in one of the failing schools. Sorry - but I dont. Private does allow us to pick what we consider to be the best fit for our child, not a government choosing what is right not knowing the individual.

If I could afford private I would be very worried about the attitues my dd might be exposed to at a private school.

happybubblebrain - I don't think you need to worry. There will be some questionable attitudes at private schools, just as there are questionable (in a different way maybe) attitudes at state schools.

MrsSM yep, sounds like the same one!

And I have known questionable attitudes (to learning as well as life) in private and state schools. Having been to both. Probably about the same percentage of drop outs later, too.

I still think SO MUCH depends on which school, which child. I would not put my girls in a school where I thought they'd be hurt, badly taught, or bullied - if I could help it. But given the choice, I would rather send my kids to a school that doesn't segregate on any basis.

I was state educated. Parents declined opportunity to enter me for exam for private school although I was likely to be eligible for scholarship. I'm no Tory but I'm not sure that imposing their principles on me did me any favours. The "social awareness" I was lucky enough to experience included:

• knowing several kids who used to steal cars for fun
• having a deputy head prefect who was pregnant (brought the baby in to collect her GCSE results)
• witnessing another deputy head prefect be violently assaulted because she used a piece of school equipment that another pupil objected to
• knowing how to obtain and use any illegal drug you could think of
• being part of a culture where learning and intelligence were not cool, where everyone wanted to be a hairdresser or join the army and this was never questioned
• where every GCSE lesson focused on what you needed to do to get a C
• where the headteacher assured my mum that my being bullied was "character building" (my dad had to collect me in the car from the teachers exit so I could avoid the risk of physical assault on the way home)
• being spat at and punched in the corridors
• resorting to hiding my dinner money in my socks (you would be made to jump up and down and if cash was heard it was taken from you (by some of the kids on free school meals)
• having to remove offensive graffiti about myself from school property

Sometimes the beauty of the ideology doesn't match the brutal reality.

How funny that most of these comments have come from people opposed to private education on moral and political grounds:

the state options for them have all been the better choice of schools (because they are excellent grammars.

Because the state schools are better than the private ones in my area!

'Cos the local private schools are crap? Mine are.

Yes here too. Friend's son just move to our (excellent) state secondary from private, already in trouble because he's just not used to discipline or homework,

it was a bit shit, and full of dim (yet well to do) hoo-rah types.

I am sure there was a reason their parents sent them to a private school... Sure as hell wasn't the education though...

She 'managed' to get in to her private school, as did both her sisters, who, also, failed 11+ by some margin..

One of my DC's was in a private school. Hated it, bullied, crap teacher (couldn't hack it in the state system), poor leadership

This is actually encouraging to see that majority, if not all the posters on this thread have better states school than private schools, and that most of the private schools in your area are crap compared to the state schools

At least the most prolific private school bashers can sleep easy tonight knowing that this so called priviledge that private school users are accused of 'buying' is futile since most of the schools are crap anyway and full of dim rich children.

Exactly. They believe that, so why do so many of them continue to get all frothed up about this? If you really believed that, why on earth would you care? You'd be happy to just leave them to it, poor naive fools, wasting their money trying to prop up their mediocre children, surely? What threat could they possibly be?

People love to say that the private schools dont offer anything their state school doesnt.

Yes, they do, don't they. And again, it's always people who are against them, which makes no sense to me at all.

I don't normally post on thse sorts of discussions. So many entrenched views - and given that only a small proportion of people have the choice inevitably ends badly. I feel envious of those with a GS or lovely red brick outstanding comp on the doorstep - we don't have that option. I wouldn't pay for the sake of it - the indie on offer is fantastic with outstanding results and the local comp is rated good with very average results. Don't disagree that the additional travel and having friends further away has been a downside but very happy with the choice. The choice has been about giving dc the opportunity to have the best education that is available to us - and yes - because we can afford it we have choice. I'm not sure that's wildly different to all those people choosing to move to live next door to the GS or the outstanding comp. What the DC do with that education is up to them - they will still need to work really hard to do well...

Yes it is funny Fellatio that the people so opposed to private education say there is no point to it and that we are all hooray henry's with more money than sense.

Methinks there is something unsaid here. If you really think that private education is crap - well dont use it. And be happy with your choice!

Why would you be so against something that you consider to be rubbish. I could understand if you were using it yourself but you arent. So why the big issue??

Also couldn't agree more with the above 2 posts!

And in my experience the disipline and homework ethic is rife. I actually until I read fellatio's email realise that there were so many insults flying around about children going to private schools. How rude of them.

Why? If the state system more than meets your expectations then why should you be concerned about the private education system at all.....

I don't use it and I am happy with my choice.

Arisbottle. help me out here. Why are some posters making such rude comments about kids going to private schools. Why is it acceptable to talk like this, dim, didnt pass the 11+, all my private schools are crap etc. What all of them...

It's so unfair that some people have a good state education near them, while others cannot access that system.

Because posters know that private education creates social injustice and that makes them angry. Yes you are right, they shouldn't say things about people's children.

To be honest , speaking on a personal level I don't care if you want to educate your children away from 93% of the population because my children will all be fine. We have the money, contacts etc to ensure that even though they go to a comprehensive ( or secondary modern) they will do well. However there are other children who need and deserve not to. Be education in a social ghetto because the middle classes have all fled to the local church, grammar or independent school.

We have the amongst the worst levels of social mobility in Europe, by sending your child to an independent school you are keeping those social divisions alive.

I can't understand why people are getting so cross. The OP asked a question- people are answering it. I have seen a couple of vaguely rude answers, but most have been thoughtful and personal. Because I am a socialist, for example, is a perfectly legitimate answer on it's own. Because I don't wand my child to only mix with other privileged children would be another one. Because my local school is fantastic, because I would rather spend my money on other things- there are loads of good reasons.

Bear in mind, the cross people, that very nasty things are said about state schools on here all the time. I could list some- but I won't. So the one or two mildly intemperate comments about private schools on here are really only a gnat bite. Ignore them.

Yes 1805 and those are the people who we need to be concerned about. The people who have a good state option near them - good! The grammars around here are very popular. However what if you dont pass the 11+, its the sec moderns or whatever they call themselves now. Not a choice for me I am afraid.

If we all had the choice of a good state option there would be no need for privates at all. But we dont. People spouting off about great state education in an an outstanding comp. Bet the area is great. There arent many great comp's or grammar's in less affluent areas. Perhaps they even paid over the odds for their house to belong to the right catchment area. Of course that doesnt count, they arent buying their education of course. They just happen to be the area.....

I suspect that they have good schools because people across the social divides use them. Most of my children are at a school which is attended by quite posh people, common people like us with too much money, lots of middle income types and then those living on the breadline. That has not happened by magic, it has happened because those of us with money have actively chosen to stay in the state sector.

Oh and it was intended to be a wind up post. It seems to have worked- but on the wrong side!

Seeker, they arent mildy rude, they are blxxxy rude. Look at what Fellatio has cut and pasted.

And you do have one child at a grammar and tried to get your other child into the same school. These are hardly failing schools. They are schools that some literally fight to get into. And as I have said - some believe that grammars are for the smug middle classes who believe in state education.

The grammars are fairly rare. Most people will not have them available as a choice. And it is a choice. You choose to send your child to a grammar. No one is forcing you....

It is easy to be socialist when you have what others can only dream about - a grammar school eduction for your child. Its not available to most of MN's!

Grammar schools are for the smug middle classes!

Oh come on, TSC, they are not just your comments, I skimmed the whole thread and took all the comments that were relevant to my point. I didn't even look at who wrote them - it as laborious enough as it was! It's not about you, and no I am not accusing you of lying.

I am just pondering on the strange dichotomy that these threads always throw up, which is stating on the one hand that many private schools are rubbish and full of 'thick bints' as you put it, and on the other hand being vehemently opposed to those ineffectual, rubbish schools sending so many thick bints to top universities, and therefore enabling them to get all those great jobs that the clever people should have had.

I can understand how someone could believe one or other of those things to be true, but not both.

A grammar school education is our worst nightmare, only something that became a forced reality for our son because he was at risk of a permanent exclusion from his comprehensive / secondary modern. I would far rather he news with my other children.