Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

"Seeker are you for real??? surely you must get tired of your Jekyll and Hyde games you play."

Nope. I am completely consistent all the time. As a search of my posting history would confirm to anyone sad enough actually to do it. The problem is that BS, for reasons that escape me, then comes and says that I have said something completely different. I can see that it be confusing for some- fortunately there are enough people around who can see what's going on for it not to bother me.

Because so many people who went to private schools grow up to be dreary entitled nobs?

I went to one myself BTW. Hence the screaming generalisation.

scarlett

You have not offered me an explanation as to why people in the third world with so much less achieve so much less more than the people you're talking about. Tell me, and we may be able to solve this UK problem on MN.

Also, why do a lot of immigrants do the jobs these people don't want to do? I often work late at work, and about 99% of the cleaners were not born in this country. Do some people think they are to good for that job?

Scarlett's mummy, thank you for your interesting comments.

Did you see the Newsnight report this week contrasting the change in attainment levels at Inner London Comps with the stagnating results in poorer areas in the rest of the country? The man from OFSTED seemed to be saying changing the school culture makes the difference.

MN 'bonding' repartee aside a 'significant' proportion of the 2012 Olympic jobs went to migrant workers (source various Evening Standard articles). One report went on about how they had to recruit contruction workers from Eastern Europe. Another went on about how they didn't have enough local applicants to fill the fast food / cleaning jobs. Anyone would think we had full employment in East London.

As for personal experience, all the cleaning staff, at least on my floor (see, I don't claim to have omnipotent knowledge of other floors :) ) the cleaners are African or Eastern Europeon. We are a.few Tube stops from E and SE London. Are you telling me that there are no locals.available such that migrant workers were the only option?

It is possible that the migrant workers are better workers: they have had the determination to move from unfortunate circumstances to better ones. You don't see, unless you go to their countries, what happens to the less able or motivated there, but you see our less capable citizens as you live here. So you are not really comparing like with like. If we make a decision to provide a safety net for people who cannot cope then some will benefit over and above what seems fair. It is probably preferable to what happens to the very poor in most of the developing world. Or maybe not, depending on your viewpoint.

JustAFewRory

I saw that. I do think the job is easier done in London where a school can leverage off a big city, and children (mostly minority groups) can aspire to more because they see around them what they can have if they work hard. The white kids from that poor town didn't have those things around them. Nothing to make them aspire to anything grand.

Scarlett seems to be in Edinburgh - which is a big city, last time I was there.

I like to ditto the "are you for real' question.

I mean, you claim to be consistent in your.views and you invite people to search your posting history. But anyone who does that will see your rants about how you sent your DD to a grammar and your complaints about how your DS had to go to a WC sec mod which [shock horror] has its carol service in the school hall as opposed to a posh church.

If I had a posting record like yours AND I went around telling myself/others how consistent I was I would expect friends to slap some sense into me.

Did you see the Newsnight report this week contrasting the change in attainment levels at Inner London Comps with the stagnating results in poorer areas in the rest of the country? The man from OFSTED seemed to be saying changing the school culture makes the difference.

I didn't see the Newsnight report but as my child is at an Inner London comprehensive I would say a so called super head made an incredible difference to DD's school and brought it up from failing to sought after. I also think the demographics of inner London have changed in the last 15 or 20 years, there are far more middle class families staying here rather than moving to the suburbs. A substantial number of children are also those whose parents come from eastern Europe or North Africa and they seem especially keen and supportive of their children getting a good education.

If I has said anything like that, I would be deeply ashamed of myself, BS. But you know, and I know that I didn't.

And sopping telling blatant lies about me would be a good idea, yes?

Tasmania - the City is next door to East London and SE London ie the poor, both real and relative, parts of London.

Being a Tube stop away from highly paid finance workers don't exactly make the local poor to aspire to something better.

Agree with Tas. The people with poor aspirations, and poor parenting, who teach their kids that actually there is no need to get an education, muck around, spoil it for the rest, who allow their kids to roam the streets burgling houses (like mine recently - and wrecking the house and attacking the dog whilst they were).

Of course its not their fault, its the governments! Help them out. The more kids you have the more you will get benefits wise - why is that? Why not a limit of 2 and max of 3 bed council house. Bring back strict disipline, no mobiles at school, strict school uniform, no more pressure to buy the latest stuff from people who are on benefits in workless households.

But make no mistake - ITS NOT THEIR FAULT - ITS THE GOVERNMENT!

seeker I did indeed leave that estate many years ago, but I still visit it about once a month as my family and friends still live there.

Yu are right, those who choose to live in benefits are a minority. But they still have to be dealt with. For one thing, the working class demand it. Door step canvassing at the last two elections showed me that this is a huge issue for working class communities.

seeker - I once spent an hour going through your old posts so that I could place your quotes next to your denials. You promptly disappeared from that thread only to repeat the same outrage at being misrepresented a few weeks later.

Well, I'm not likely to waste another hour of my time again. You and I both know what you said. I don't feel a need to prove it to others.

potatoprinter
I agree about North Africans supporting education in my limited experience.
My DH is North African and quite a few of his friends who do average jobs such as driving buses here are university educated (qualifications not always recognised here). All of them speak a couple of languages e.g. English, Arabic and French (DH speaks 4 languages and is not unusual) and most of the children are bi or trilingual. Many of them would have been middle class in their home country and have brought those attitudes with them. They really value education because they see it as the only way forward for their children. They also know what it is like to live somewhere where there isn't much of a safety net outside of the family. If you saw the quality of the state run hospitals in DH's country you would never criticise the NHS again.

maisie - I don't often disagree with you but WTF! at your Its the government's fault comments.

A safety net is provided to help the poor. There are some who abuse the ideals behind this safety net but to blame the government for encouraging the poor to have large families by not packing a large family into a shoe box is just crazy.

"Based on my actual expenses I calculated £40k pa to put one kid through prep. That figure was met with derision by many. There was no way anybody (ie them) can live comfortably off the £27k gross that was left after fees were deducted."
I pay my school fees out of my net income not my gross income if there is a way of paying it out of our gross income please can you tell me how? A couple earning £20 000 PA each will pay deductions of at least £8000 PA leaving £32 000 your saying prep fees £13000 but let?s say £11 000 with extras lunches etc (if you?re lucky) so now they are living off £21 000 not £27 000. £21 000 is I believe about £1200 PCM out of this they have to pay their mortgage/rent insurance (life and building if they have a mortgage) council tax utilities food petrol etc etc. I'm not saying it can?t be done if your exceptionally frugal but no room for unexpected bills and let?s not forget statistically most parents have two children.

Totally - I am saying that it is easy to blame the government for people's poor aspirations. And its not a safety net - its a choice once you have chosen to not use the education system that was given to you free. No one forced you to mess around at school!

happy -I wasted a day engaging you on the subject. I'm not gonna waste another day. I did the maths based on where I live, my expenses and my fees. But feel free to tell me that I can't live on what I say I can :)

Another lie, BS. You don't have to go back through my posting history again. Just link to the thread you mention where I "disappeared" Easy Peasy.

TotallyBS why on earth would you dedicate an hour of your life stalking someone you will never meet or know?

People are not machines, put us in different situations and we may have a different response. I am sure that you could find contradictory responses of mine. I am also not so stubborn that I hold the same view regardless , every day experience or even posts on here will prompt me to adapt or change my views.

I loathe grammar schools but have a son in one , because at the time we were given very few choices. Often we do not make moral choices in a vacuum, other people have an input.

Common sense and a lack of personal responsibility is definitely lacking in the British Society.

The past labour Government definitely entrenched this into the minds of people and tied people into the benefits culture so that they remained grateful. But increasingly (though in small doses) people and waking up.

Why did you choose a grammar school for your child seeker? I thought you were against selection.

You can actually send a child to private school where I live on 2 couples each earning £20k each with 1 child (with 2 it becomes tricky even with discount. one would have to push for bursary).

Total net income after tax and NI = £32,000 0r £2,667/month

Expenses per month
Rent for £450 for a 3 bed semi
Utilities £200
Council Tax £120
Food £400
Travel £400
Contingency/savings £300
School Fees for Prep £750 (for one child)

I have perhaps been generous with food and transport so it can be done if that is what you want but I reckon that in other to do this you have to have lived a very simple life prior to having children i.e no debt, no my child your child and our child scenario etc