What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

The school year (in the UK) is structured principally around the Christian calendar, not around the harvest.

In France the school year is basically structured around a six-weeks on/two weeks off format, with a two-month summer break (which has the same learning caveats as in the US ie MC children learn a lot and move forward, other DC drop back).

'Dinner ladies and TAs also do not to work in the holidays! '

I love the way you feel entitled to speak for all these people. Actually there are many, many people,in these posiitons or aspiring to them, often posting on here, who would love more hours. These jobs, as they stand, do not provide a living wage.

fivecandles, i am not against your idea, i just want to understand the logistics of it with respect to how it will work at secondary, particularly in subjects where the skills are not modular

i do appreciate the childcare issue- i have my own children, and they go to a childminder who takes her holidays out of term time (i am given to understand it is far cheaper ) leaving me to try and cover as best as i can

The TAs that I know do it because they want a job with few hours and long holidays- not all want extra hours.
I was talking about primary- secondary would be different because you have to factor in public exams.
Lots of parents like long unstructured time- all those who HE for a start and those who would love to HE if they could.
Private schools won't do it. They have even longer holidays and since they have added term duties they are not going to give them up.

Once again teachers don't get paid for their holidays- the bill will rise substantially if you have additional weeks to work- they are not going to take it as a pay cut!

I forgot to say, in my system where parents get additional free childcare they would be expected to have additional duties too. Everyone would have to do at least a term on the PTA and there were would be a rota for coming in once a term- they could choose if it was the father or the mother- to help.

At the start of the year there would be a list of the things that enhance education- so that they get plenty of warning for something like an Egyptian day and dress the DC without moaning!

Ahhh, Tiggy, read back over the thread. If the curriculum was more balanced across the year it would be less tiring for kids and teachers. Unfortunatley, not every kid gets a nice 6 week 'rest' over the holdiays with mummy and daddy. Some end up completely unsupervised or put into inadequate and costly childcare. A new system could and should provide flexibility so you could still take holidays and also more extra curricular activities.

I am only speaking for the TAs that I know- a considerable number.

No one funds my six week holiday. I don't get paid for it.

FiveCandles, you have stopped even considering the children and are now attempting to reorganise the school year around what you consider to be convenient for "working parents" (all of whom work exactly the same hours, have exactly the same needs and priorities )

One of the major employers in my town does term-time only contracts, which are very popular because it allows parents to SPEND TIME WITH THEIR KIDS. It seems people WANT to do so, and are not, in fact moaning that they'd be able to spend more time at work if it wasn't for the inconvenience of school holidays. Perhaps more employers need to look at flexible contracts, rather than schools changing to supply childcare 9-5 all year round.

It's not a good use of resources to structure the school year to compensate for the minority of families who don't ensure their DC get a good rest and break in the summer.

My last word- tell me who will pay for it by putting the needs of children, teachers and parents first - rather than the public purse.

' i just want to understand the logistics of it '

Blimy - I'm not actually a policy maker unfortunately. These are suggestions. This is the way things would be in my ideal world. I can see lots of advantages - social, economic, educational... The only real loss (which is the only real reason for the resistance) is some of teachers' holidays but, in my vision, this would be compensated by a more balanced, less pressured working year, better outcomes for kids and more flexibility about when you take holdiays.

I'm also interested in your idea fivecandles and would love an opportunity to discuss potential reforms with other professionals, but ideally without the mudslinging. We do care about the children we teach and are aware of our greater obligations to society, but I don't think teachers can be blamed for being concerned about their own working conditions, just like any other employee would be.

Another last word - I can't see why people want children if you never get time to see them! Have state boarding schools and go and take them out in the odd times it is convenient! Also solves the problem of inadequate parents.

'not all want extra hours.'

But many do and frankly, really well qualifed people, would be queuing up to do this job if it provided a living wage which it currently doesn't.

Anyway, once again, my system would allow flexibility. Teachers, children, support staff could take time off when it suited them as opposed to in keeping with the harvest.

exotic when dd starts pre-school i am doing a cache course in early years teaching assistant and will be volunteering at the primary whilst i do so. With the aim of getting a job as a ta. And the holidays is on my plus list, dp cant get holidays off and i need and want to be around for the mad things.

My kids are always ready for the holidays when they come round, if anything i would like more!!

How would that work in secondary? How?

Who would pay? Read further down the thread. The Govt managed to fund the olympic opening ceremony to the tune of 27 million and Free Steiner and Maharishi schools et al to the tune of billions.

It invests in free chilcare places for 3 year olds bcause it understands that there is a huge economic and social benefit to enabling parents to work.

Same deal.

Think how much is wasted when those buildings and facilities are left unused for 13 weeks of the year. And expertise when teachers are sitting at home working instead of working at school.

And wouldn't taxpayers be prepared to pay a little bit more considering they wouldn't have to fork out a penny for 13 weeks holiday any longer?

there may well be an argument for distributing holidays more evenly through the year

this is not the same argument as modular subjects and holiday when you want. i am really struggling to understand how this last one is beneficial for students' learning

it is really hard to discuss something in good faith with someone who implies that anyone resistant to these specific changes lacks imagination or is entitled, but , when asked for detail says, 'blimey i am not a policy maker'

And the savings in benefits because not having to pay or manage that childcare over those holidays would enable a significant number of parents to work where it is not currently worth their while financially.

Seriously, fivecandles, I've taken your side a fair bit in this debate, but the holidays are unpaid. Make teachers work more, pay them more.

How would a drop in system work in secondary? How would someone plan to teach a GCSE course when they don't know which students are in when, and kids are taking holidays at any given point?

'No one funds my six week holiday. I don't get paid for it.'

I don't get how this makes us different from otehr jobs except that actually our salary is pretty decent then considering we get 13 weeks holiday that is unpaid.

Teachers need to understand when they're on to a good thing. No other job gets paid so much for so few official working hours.

As for the unofficial hours, if you do those anyway, then why resent spreading out the year a bit more and changing our hours to reflect what we already do but recongizing it and making it more manageable>

I would very willingly sacrifice a week or two holiday for less contact time every day each week. Most teachers would feel this way since they already work so many extra unpaid hours. BUt my system would allow flexibility, you could probably still work the hours you do now but you could also spread them out.

Flexibility, ladies, everyone's a winner.

in oz we have 4 terms. each term lasts 10 weeks. I like this but do agree the summer holidays are to long. we had 7 weeks this summer. my kids are ready to go back after 4-5 weeks.

NOt a drop in system. Modules . You do 6 weeks or 8 weeks and then pick up other modules or go on holiday or do some catching up or pick up extra curricular. Much better suited to the educational needs of our kids and the economy. Much more individual tailoring.