Idependant Schools-pros+cons???????

[Angeliz]

HI,
my dd is 2.10 and i have looked at an independant School right round the corner and a state School quite close too. I know i am very lucky to be able to choose but i'm a bit lost as to the difference. Apart from the obvious smaller class sizes, what ARE the benifits of a private School?
I am terrified of lettting her go to any School but i know i have to make decisions this year. It seems such a massive decision as it will obviously affect the whole of dd's childhood.
I just wanted to say that a few months back i read a commment once on here about "people with worries such as 'Oh which private School to send dd to'". I realise i'm very lucky but it honestly is confusing and i want to make the right decision!
Any views would be really appreciated!

I think the benefits vary depending on the schools involved. Independent school are more autonomous and as such can offer a more varied curriculum, for example, introducing languages at an earlier age to their state counterparts, and employing specialist teachers. They can also opt out of SAT tests although that doesn't mean that they do not cover the same work or closely monitor the pupils achievements. Class sizes tend to be the most obvious difference. The facilities can also be more extensive (art room, music room, gym etc). However that is pretty sweeping view and some State schools, especially those who are not in LEA control, also offer such things.

Not sure why you feel under such pressure to make a decision unless there is a waiting list for the Independent school. Even so you could put her name down and review it later. Your dd would not enter Reception until Sept 2005 and is not legally required to be in education until the term after she is 5 , presumably Easter 2006.

At the end of the day if you are fortunate enough to have the choice you should go with whichever enviroment and teaching style will best suit your daughter and with which you feel most comfortable.

hth

Angeliz - my DD's name has been down on two different independent school waiting lists since she was about a year old. It wa sdown on one which we really liked but the headteacher changed and I wasn't as keen on a econd visit, so I have put her name down on another list for a prep school too. Both schools are highly subscribed so we needed her name down early. My choice of state school is very limitd and there is no way I would send her to the catchment one.

Don't forget you can change your mind at a later date anyway and this isn't a final choice you are making now.

There is a long thread from last year about independent schools. It did get very heated but there were some good points made (for both sides) in amongst the bickering. It may be worth searching out.

thanks for that I realise i have a bit of time but the reason i feel under pressure is that i want to make the right chioce and not regret any choice and move her later(if that makes sence).
I think we will get her into the private nursery at the School and see how we like it for her and i guess i'll decide after she's been there for a while whether to keep her there or put her name down for the other one.
I have been reading up about waiting lists and things like that ,(for the state School),and i guess that's why i was worried also, that we didn't close our options off.

thanks Hulababy. Why did you opt for Independant Schools then?

The catchment primary school to me is not suitable for DD. It takes about 2.3 of children who don''t speak English. DD already has a good grasp of language and is doing well with her development at 21 months. A primary school has to teach to the majority of the class and obviously in this case would have to look at basic language skills. I am hopeful that DD wouldn't need that.

The other local primary schools are heavily over subscibed and it is extremely unlikely that we would be able to get her in.

I work - teacher in state school - and would not be able to drop DD off/pick her up and would, therefore, need childcare before and asafter school. The school(s) were have selected both offfer care fom 8am until 4:30pm included in their price. Therefore this means I don't need to pay for additional childcare.

Private school will not cost us anymore than sending DD to nursery so the cost is not an issue as such to us. The school also offers both than just the standard curriculum. DD will do music, ballet, ICT, drama, etc. right from the age of 4. I like the idea of all these enrichment activities being there at school and it won't cut into our family weekend time.

We have looked into this a lot and the decision was not made on a whim. As I said I am a teacher myself so do have a reasonable idea of what to look for. DH and I feel we have made the best decision for us and DD.

You have to go with your gut instinct. What are you looking for in a school? A nice, kind place that offers your child lots of different experiences, with a head teacher who you respect and agree with, with teachers who appear to enjoy their jobs and give each child individual attention and with an atmosphere and ethos that you think will suit your child (for some this will be very gentle and calm, for others it may be sporty and energetic etc) and with class sizes that you are happy your child will cope with. Those are the main things. If you can find those in both state and independant, then what are the advantages of state? It is free, the children are more likely to come from a smaller area so friends will be nearby, you may feel politically happier supporting state education, your children will be exposed to a much greater mix of children (from the social and intellectual POV) which has to be a good thing. What are the advantages of independent? A good independent will have more activities/opps for little ones in the way of extras, will have considerably smaller class sizes (ours has 16 per class max), will have longer holidays while still teaching the children as much or more (function of class sizes I guess) so arguably less tiring for small child. Your children will be less likely to have very disruptive/problem children in class and the social mix will be much narrower so you as a parent will have many more parents of your own type (because it is necessarily a self selecting group) to make friends with. (Nobody shoot me down in flames, please - being baldly realistic about why some people choose independent schools!)

I think one important thing to remember about independent schools is that they aren't automatically good because they are independent - there are a lot of crap ones around. And I would never send my child to one which was owned by the headmaster/mistress (lots of them around) and I would ensure it has a board of governors in place. Also if it does early years teaching (ie if it has nursery or reception) it will have had an ofsted inspection and they are worth reading...
good luck!

Angeliz - lots of pros and cons. You obviously get a 'more select' group of children in an independent school ... this may be a pro or a con, depending on your position. How wide the cross-section is, tends to vary according to your location, and, as Hulababy says, according to how good the local state schools are. We live in a fairly deprived area, and I was not keen to isolate my children from 'reality' from the age of 4, but we were very fortunate to be in the catchment area of a fantastic school, so it wasn't a difficult choice.

You also need to think about the costs carefully too - it can be very difficult to put a child back into the state system, and if they go at 4 you are committing yourself to paying for education and uniform, extra trips etc. for 14 years - plus the costs of university afterwards ...

On the plus side many private schools teach foreign languages very early, even from 4, which is the best way to do it. This is very rare in the state sector.

Thanks everyone.
This is all very good advice and has given me food for thought and i will print it out for dp too. Will check in again later but wanted to say a quick thankyou now

Don't have much time, but I wanted to add my two pen'orth here.

I went to a private school and have decided that I really want dd to go to a state school (unless circumstances dictate otherwise). Most private schools are very very academically oriented - depending on the child that can be a good thing, but it is not right for everyone. Also a lot of my school-mates were/are snobby as anything (and that is the reason I want to send dd to a state school really).

But as others say, if there are problems with the local schools then private may be the only option. Just remember that it's easier to move a child from state to private than vice-versa.

Hulababy - do you mean 2 thirds of children at your local school don't speak English as a first language? Blimey. What a nightmare for the teachers! not to mention the other parents - I would have to think seriously about private in those circumstances too, especially as your dd always sounds way ahead of my dd (and presumably way ahead of the average), despite being only a month or two older).

Sp - yes. Where we live is strange really. In the past there were traditionally a lot of refugees and immigrant families put into local housing/flats. This has continue recently. Now there are a few city apartment being built, like ours but very few childreen. Other than our DD there are no other English children in our apartment. There are soem Indian children - toddlers mainly - but they are only here temporarily. They are here with HSBC bank being trained fro call centre work in India. Hence the high rate of english being a second language.

Well I hope HSBC are paying towards the extra teaching assistants/language specialists at the local school....

To be fair to the school and teachers there last OFSTED was "very good at teaching the majority of the children they teach." I suspect the teachers are very dedicated and work wonders with these children. It just isn't the right choice for my DD.

I was surprised Hulababy said that -- we live in a rather ethnic area, and I don't think more than 1/3, if that, of the local children speak English as a 2nd language. For me, though, the ethnic diversity is a huge plus, something we will miss when we move to Norfolk.

Someone I know worked as an lab assistant in a private secondary girls' school "but not a very expensive one", inbetween posts at State Secondaries. She said that she was surprised at how much worse funded the private school was; as lab assistant, for instance, she had to really make sure that nothing for experiments was wasted, anything that could be reused had to be reused, etc. Yes they had small class sizes, but the trade off was the tight budget for other things. It may be worth looking into whether a particular private school really is as well-funded as the state-school alternative. Similarly, a friend has decided to go against her neighbourhood trend by not sending her DD to the local independent primary, because although her local state primary has poor test scores, she (friend) really liked the State head and teachers, and she was bowled over by the school's facilities; schools with deprived social intakes often have the best funding for computers, etc., apparently.

Some Ofsted reports do just glow. It's nice when you read one like that.

Digressing slightly, we are facing a similar decision at the moment for our DD aged 2.3. I have obtained some prospectuses (prospecti?) from the local independant schools, although the local state school is also in the running with a reasonable OFSTED report. However, haven't done any visits yet.
What are the kind of things we should be asking and looking out for on these visits? I work in a profession also subjected to league tables so I'm very aware that they are not the whole story.

Do the classrooms look inviting, interesting, nicely decorated? Are children in the classrooms interested & paying attention or bored, making faces at each other -- I mean, making faces while the head is watching your class, is a pretty bad sign, isn't it?!

I asked what were the strengths and weaknesses of their school, and sometimes I asked about criticisms that the Ofsted report had mentioned specifically, and had been done to address them. Usually I found that heads will tell you what they think the 'ethos' of the school is, what it's particular challenges and strengths are. Something important I think must be if you can tell whether the staff like working there or not; must usually transmit to how well they teach, too. Just asking about staff turnover rates could give you a clue on that one.

Don't forget to look at physical facilities; the school I liked best had the best playing fields, sports clubs and it's own swimming pool -- I suspect my kids might take big advantage of those. You have to think (like HulaBaby says) about your own child's likely needs & strengths, although these may change, too, or not be what you expected them to be.

Zebra - part of the problem for me really is the fact that many children at the school are there on short term and the turnover of pupils is reasonably high. I have no problem with ethnic diversity at all, and agree it can be a very good think. But I do want DD to be at a school where she is being stretched and her potential being achieved, in whatever that may be. At the school I am talking about the primary teachers haveto teach English language skills before they begin on the rest of the curriculum. As I said before, hopefully DD won't need that.We have looked a good range of school and based this choice of many reasons, not just this one however.

I find all this fascinating and is exactly what i'd hpoed for. The good and bad of both sides. SenoraP, your post was interesting as i'd hate dd to feel all the kids were stuck up! I am still gonna do alot of research on both but actually the state school i looked at seemed to have very good facilities, music room, computer room.the only thing is it's only infants so she'd have to move again when she is 6/7. Anyway, will keep checking in.

My middle son moved to an independent school at the start of Y3, then back to a State Grammar school to start Y7. He didn't have any problems adjusting either way. He also knew no-one at either of the schools he moved to.

My DD was at state primary from R to Y6, independent from Y7 to Y11, & 6th form at a state Grammar. She had a struggle with the transition from Independant to State at age 16 but it's a funny age anyway. She had her "teen rebellion" about 3 years late!! (It was over in a term.... )

As with anything, it depends on the particular school. Ours had a lot of land; specialist teachers for French, science & PE; swimming pool on site; Saturday morning school. It was a Methodist school with a strong Christian ethos, complete with "proper" assemblies in Chapel, & hymn practice, very similar to the primary I went to in the 60s & 70s.

One of the best features was early drop-off (8am) & late pick-up (6.30 pm), as well as occasional boarding -really handy when DH & me went off on a cheap package to Italy for a week! (tho' neither child wanted to come home & BEGGED to board full-time!). They also teach them how to pass exams.

In the end it comes down to personal choice. You get a "feel" for a school when you visit. It can be the best school in the country on paper but if you don't like it when you walk in, then it isn't the right school for your child. You have to decide what is important to you as a family & send your DD to wherever you think she'll get that.

Incidentally, as far as diversity is concerned, being a boarding school it had a high proportion of pupils from Hong Kong, Africa & Russia (bizarrely). Pupils were placed in the year group most appropriate to their own level, rather than strictly by age, as is the norm in the UK. This also is a huge plus if your child is very forward or having huge problems. One of DS's best friends in Y6 was a Hong Kong Chinese boy of 14.

Well, I started WW3 by asking a similar question last year, so i thought i'd chip in. DD goes to the nursery of a private day school. I was privately educated from 2+ and went to a range of schools from the £20k per year establishments that everyone's heard of, to smaller local day schools. I swore blind that I'd send my kids to state schools until we looked round the local ones. We live in the NW btw.

We were concerned by the poor levels of literacy amongst the staff, prospectuses were full of spelling and grammar errors, so were the displays and so on in the school. We were also concerned that staff seemed to think that if a child reached the "adequate" SAT level, then their job was done.

I'm embarrassed to say we looked at about 14 schools before we found DD's school. It is private, but attached to a state grammar school. The 4x4 parents are ina minority, in DD's class there are several university workers (including DH and me), plasterers, mortgage advisors, all very "average". We live in a very "white" area, so her school has one of the highest rates of ethnic minority pupils in the borough. Anyway, when we looked round it just felt "right", DD liked it so much she stayed in the nursery whilst we did the grand tour.

Sorry, none of this really answers your question, but I think it's more to do with finding then right school for you and your child than either sector having particular advantages and disadvantages.

I'm taking an interest in this thread as my ds will hear in a few months whether we have got into our school of choice. Fingers crossed!
My area is very culturally mixed which is lovely, BUT I don't want him to go to the local school as its more focused on the asian population. I think this could only prove to hold my ds up as they will have to teach alot of the children the basics of the language first.
The school I want is quite a walk away but it'll be worth it. I chose the school 2 years ago and I've been dragging my ds all the way to the connected playgroup since he was 2 and a half. If he doesn't get in, I will home school him, it really is the only other option for me.
The ofsted reports are a challenge to wade through but well worth the effort.

thanks marialuisa BTW what was the thread called last year as i'd love to read all the views?

Best of luck BekkiKay

Got me curious, BekkiKay is it the CoE school, bottom of William St. you like? I adored Rendell St. & know the reception class teacher there (a little), but signed DS up for Cobden, if we don't move, as Childminder does pickups there and friends quite like Cobden otherwise... I have heard horrible things about Holywell, though, presumably that's too far for you to be thinking of? right, enough of boring everybody with local goss about Lboro schools!