Idependant Schools-pros+cons???????

[Angeliz]

HI,
my dd is 2.10 and i have looked at an independant School right round the corner and a state School quite close too. I know i am very lucky to be able to choose but i'm a bit lost as to the difference. Apart from the obvious smaller class sizes, what ARE the benifits of a private School?
I am terrified of lettting her go to any School but i know i have to make decisions this year. It seems such a massive decision as it will obviously affect the whole of dd's childhood.
I just wanted to say that a few months back i read a commment once on here about "people with worries such as 'Oh which private School to send dd to'". I realise i'm very lucky but it honestly is confusing and i want to make the right decision!
Any views would be really appreciated!

CoE. Nope. No religious sing songy plays for me, thankyou.
Rendell st will be our second choice, if we have to.
We want Mountfields!
Our first choice was Holywell-the best school in L'boro, believe me. But it was too far even for us.
I didn't want to say this but you've forced me- Don't send your kids to Cobden! Better to not have an education at all.

FUNNY how people love or loathe Cobden. Well, we are supposed to be moving city, anyway. I think the continuity of DS keeping the same Childcare is just as important as the school (just knowing how my DS is). And several friends with children attending there really like Cobden; one of these gals has a son also at Holywell (this is a school in the posh far end of town, btw, for those of you getting very bored) -- and friend has a lot of unpleasant things to say about Holywell ("they only care about test scores", etc.). Haven't heard anything bad about Mountfields, and their test scores are admittedly astronomical, although VA-measure not quite as impressive, funny enough.

Sorry I'm quite tired-VA? Have you got a link to these test scores? I looked a while back when choosing schools but can't remember much.
Cobden won an improvement award last year, so it may have improved. But all the horrors that surround us attend that school so ds will NOT be going there. I have only ever heard bad things about it, esp from the parents who send their kids there! Why are they still sending them everyday if they don't like it?!
Some people just don't give a damn where their kids are sent.

Popstar - definitely take the time to visit the schools. Usually the Head will show you round, and they will tell you what is important to them, which will give you a good idea about the school. (A friend was told by a Head that she 'hand picked the girls at age 3' that she knew would 'fit in with the ethos' of the school ... Yuck! And that was supposed to be impressive.)

We were moving 350 miles, but managed to visit three schools. I can still remember my impressions from that visit to the first choice school ... things like the Head clearly knowing personally individual children and addressing them by name (large primary school - 500 kids), doors being held open for us by children, calm/working atmosphere in the classrooms, etc. ... And in the 18 months since the boys have been at the school our first impressions have been proved true - the more we see of the school the more delighted we are.

Ofsted reports are great - but don't read too many at once - they tend to use repetitive phrases and give you brain ache. Personally I'm not that interested in League Tables/SATs results, as they are only telling a tiny bit of the story. They can also vary a lot from year to year.

Angeliz - This is the original thread.

VAM = Value Added measure, it's the new stat that basically tries to measure the improvement between Key Stage 1 and KS-2 results. So it should capture something about quality of teaching, not just quality of student intake. VA-measure varies a lot less than the raw test scores. The 'average' VAM is supposed to be around 100, and the variation seems to be mostly be around 98-102 -- that's it. Very little variation, really. As opposed to raw test scores which vary from 45% to 100% in schools I've glanced over. However... it's seeming to me like VAM typically is higher in the schools that also have high test results... don't think anybody has shown if that's generally true nationally, though, the VAM is so new.

I'm only such a swot on these things because I'm using the VA-measure for work. You can see our local raw and VA-results on this link .

Don't forget many of those posh houses down by Charnwood water also send their kids to Cobden...

Take care with value added......
But I am not even going to start this discussion
As soemone who helps to analyse the stats within school, the way they calculate value added at least at ks2, is flawed
in my opinion
and in others too

i will elaborate if you want but i am very relcutant to

When we lived in London I was sure we would have to go private. I am ashamed to say now that we didn't even look at the State schools.

Anyway we found a lovely little private school (still say ot was a nice school) ds1 went for his interview with the head (age 2 and a bit!) "passed"- and then was landed with an autism diagnosis 6 months later. So private was out the window. Aslo shows how good the entrance tests are!

Anyway we moved. I chose his mainstream primary based on how good it was a treating children individually and we have been very very happy with it. We are now just praying that normally developing ds2 will get in (we are out of catchment area). We live just round the corner from the local private/public school. Would I consider it? Nope- not at primary level anyway.

You could always put her name down for both and then choose nearer the time. Children change a lot between 2 and 4. I have another friend who put her son's name down for a private school then decided on the state, and I have 2 friend's who have made the opposite decision. Heads can change and schools can change in that time as well.

Oh and if we still lived in London I would probably be sending ds2 to a Steiner school which I wouldn't have dreamed of 2 and a half years ago. So parents and priorities can change as well. Don't fell you have to make the decision now. You may risk losing a deposit but you can keep your options open.

BTW we didn't have to pay a deposit to put DD's name down on either school. At our schools the deposii is paid once a definite place is accepted, after the assessment at age 3 - about a year bbefore she will start.

Thanks Hulababy, i am about a quarter of the way through it and find it really interesting. I am going on to read the rest (if i dare)

Good luck with it Angeliz. There are some really good points made for both sides in amongst the 'debating'

As I say I am a state teacher choosing to send my child to a private school - for my own, I think good reasons. I see it from both sides.

You have to go with your own instincts of what is best for you and your child/ren.

thanks for that jimjams. We have just (yesterday) sent off the form to get her into the private School nursery aged 3.6. I think that even if she goes to that nursery, we will see how happy she is there and how happy we are with the School. We will then make the desision whether to keep her there or put her name down for the state School i saw. It seems to be the most sensible way to do it as a few children use the private nursery then go to state Schools so at least i will be able to make a more informed decision.
To tell the truth, one of the pro's for private seems to be people saying about longer holidays. Does that mean holidays OUT of School or WITH the School? One of the thingss i don't like is the fact that they seem to do more extensive trips early on. I don't want dd to be going away from me at a young age and it's something dp and i have talked about. It would be fine when she's younger but as soon as she's old enough to say to me "but so and so is going...."

Angeliz

Re holidays - It is a bit of both. Usually the terms are shorter and therefore the number of weeks in academic study over the year less. However many independent schools run a week or two's worth of holiday activity clubs, primarily I think to help out working parents. Also there may be trips in school time but generally, in both private and state sectors, parents would be asked along to help out, especially with little ones and you may get the opportunity to go on family holidays as part of an organised school trip, skiing for example.

btw You could apply to the State School anyway whether you realy want the place or to keep your options open. There is no absolute guarantee your dd would get a place at the one of your choice even by placing her on a list beforehand.

Thanks LIZS and SueW. I am still only halfway throught the other thread but am stil finding all the different views very interesting.
The two comments that hit me out of all so far are about,"toffee nosed kids,(or words to that effect), and looking ridiculous in their poncy little uniform and hats".
It's that kind of attitude that worries me. I lived away for years and when i came back and worked in a cafe at 17 i was called a "F***g snob" JUST for not talking with a "normal" Northern accent! Mind you i always give as good as i get and i'm pretty sure dd will too, wherever we decide for her
I will carry on as it's such a fascinating read

With any school, I'd ask about anti-bullying policies(notorious in British public schools, isn't it?) & streaming/setting, too -- ie., how do they handle children of different abilities.

I'm not surprised what you said about the VA-score, Popsycal -- at the moment it's looking dubious to me, too! Maybe I will email you to ask more details! But it's very new ... so as a parent I'm still open-minded.

Angeliz, if you're in the north you may well find that your DD gets the local accent anyway. DD has a lovely little scouse accent coming on. As you know my dad is "foreign" and bless hgim, he remarked at Xmas that "school fees don't seem to be helping her to speak properly" He went to a lot of effort to minimize his accent.

TBH i find those sort of comments about uniforms etc. ridiculous and bigoted, says more about people's own insecurities than it does about the kids.

My dd has ALREADY been called a snob by an uncle of mine.(Yes, she's only two!)
We moved from a little cottage to a quite big house and suddenly that Aunt and Uncle won't visit unless they're invited!I saw them at my mams one day and my Uncle said,"Oh here comes the little princess- stuck up just like her mother", I refuse to invite them as i never did before and they have changed the rules not me! Plus if they are gonna talk to dd that way they are not welcome!
I don't have a broad accent and DP is Irish but tbh i don't mind how dd speaks. I think she'll be a mix of everything

angeliz, I think that is exactly the point. people who call other people snobs with zero justification usually have some sort of insecurity themselves - ie it speaks volumes about the person coming out with this crap and nothing about the person who is meant to be the snob! Your uncle can't cope with the fact that you live in a big house - his problem, not yours. People who say that children at private school are "toffee nosed" - they are the bigoted ones. Most 5,6,7yr olds are delightful, amusing, sweet things who have no concept of class and money etc. You may get some teenagers who have attitude problems like that but tbh they usually snap out of it within a few years, and I'd like to think that my children and your children will NOT be brought up like that. And in any event you get attitudes like that in the state sector just as much as in the private sector.
Everyone who posts on this forum has children who are bloody lucky compared to a lot of others, because they have mothers who care and want to do the best for their children - and I'm sure everyone will drum that in to their children. Makes me cross that people make sweeping prejudiced generalisations like that. As you can no doubt tell from this response!

Zebra, the sort of "bullying" you're talking about, initiations etc. has been severely clamped down upon. Regardless of this it's no more of a problem in private day primaries than it is in similar state schools.

Second PPH's views. When I was working in educational research we noted that teenagers with attitude problems tended (i.e. I'm better than you because I'm rich" tended to congregate in the comps that served affluent areas rather than the private schools. A headmaster of one such school warned us before a focus group that his pupils "have all the money and none of the class". He was spot on.

Please excuse my HUGE ignorance but this thread has make me think that I would need to take action as well and soon as I have not yet contacted any possible school. It is not my intention to kidnap this thread, so just answer me if you think this can be of help to this discussion.

Could somebody be kind enough to explain me what it is the diference between independent school a private school, and a state school? In my country there are only two kinds, the ones that were free sponsored by the government and the ones that are not that charge a tuition fee.

You don't know what I was thinking, MariaLuisa: Bullying can take a huge range of expressions, few of which involve initiations, instead are usually about exclusion and intimidation; unlike someone else on this thread who called 7yo's "sweet" I remember many of them all too clearly as cruel and cunning from my school days. One of the state schools I've nixed for my son (solidly homogenous, suburban & wealthy, and you all know how eccentric I am!) because I wouldn't fit in that neighbourhood, and the bullying potential is too high for my children if they turn out even half like me. I realise the potential is lower if my children start reception and get into their own set of friends early on, which is also a big reason I am reluctant to ever change primary schools after my children start. But of course I will change; in a heartbeat, if my kids are bullied and it can't be resolved (which admittedly, is something my parents weren't sensitive enough to do for me).
Funny enough, I hadn't realised it, but the 'not fitting in thing' is a big reason why I would probably actively avoid most fee-paying schools for my children, too. I would be too unlike other parents, so my kids probably would be too unlike the other kids. Being too different is a huge handicap in school.